The Tomasello Argument

[Delaware Golf]

I have often wondered where Tom Tomasello came up with the comments in his 1991 Golf Illustrated interview where he says...

Tomasello: Yes. The delayed hit is merely keeping the right wrist bent through impact. All that stuff about leading the downswing with a lateral move of the lower body, driving the hips and legs toward the target to retain power--it's all terribly wrong! It seems to be what's happening, but it's not really what happens in the most efficient, centifugal-force swing there is no forward motion by any part of the body. There are just the two "force vectors" I've described.

To say "leading the downswing with a lateral move of the lower body, driving the hips and legs toward the target to retain power--it's all terribly wrong!" That's a pretty bold statement...however, I was reading the seventh edition over the weekend and discovered the last paragraph of 2-N-O had been revised...after reading this section I'm starting to understand where the comments from Tomasello may have come from...

Last paragraph of 2-N-O.

Proper Clubhead control is dependent on coordinationg the complete Hip Turn with the selected Right Elbow Position (10-3), Motion (6-B-1), and Path (7-3) to avoid collisions as well as for Balance and Axis Tilt. (See 7-15.) To accomplish both the Backstroke and Downstroke must be executed as 7-3, 10-3 and 10-5-0 discuss that procedure."

After listening to my private lesson tapes with Tomasello over the last few months, I have come to the conclusion that in no way was Tomasello trying to reinvent TGM. It's interesting that the above statement from Homer references 7-3....Magic of the Right Forearm???

DG

[lagster]

Tom was a good teacher. He was constantly learning, and would occasionally put the EMPHASIS on a new idea, or concept that he learned about TGM.

It is debatable whether the standard procedure he usually taught was HITTING. SWINGING, or COMBO, but I think he was actuually very close to much of what is taught here on this forum. He liked to emphasize "THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM," and portions of the book that refered to this. He also liked a RIGHT FOREARM RELEASE TRIGGER, but did show me rhe Left Wrist Trigger also.

During his Advance Schools, he went over several different procedures, and many Short Game shots. He knew more than just one procedure.

[vj]

Taking into account Tri-Pod Center and this discussion of "creating power by driving the hips, legs, etc....." I really don't mind the concept that is being taught by allowing the head to move off the ball, however, if the head moves enough to allow the left shoulder to be disrupted from low point then a player must "drive the hips, legs, etc...." to get the left shoulder back to where it should be.

With that being said, the whole foundation of two different motions in the pivot can be seen. One with the flat left wrist-one with the arched left wrist. Different knee action, foot action, hip action, and a vast majority of other distinct differences.

So the question is, was the message of Tri-Pod Center lost because of a generation of instructors that did not understand it until Lynn brought it back out some 3-5 years ago. I am not trying to give Lynn all the credit, I just never heard of this concept until I got to him via multiple TGM instructors. Even me, with a Masters in Golf Stroke Engineering never heard the phrase "Tripod pivot center" until Lynn.

So, if not Tri-Pod center then an entire train of different pivot components must jump in there to save impact. The pattern is in the book, just as tri-pod center is.......but what do the best motions in the world look like? Very steady with few moving parts in the pivot or moving off the ball with more moving parts in the pivot?

[Delaware Golf]

Tom was a good teacher. He was constantly learning, and would occasionally put the EMPHASIS on a new idea, or concept that he learned about TGM.

It is debatable whether the standard procedure he usually taught was HITTING. SWINGING, or COMBO, but I think he was actuually very close to much of what is taught here on this forum. He liked to emphasize "THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM," and portions of the book that refered to this. He also liked a RIGHT FOREARM RELEASE TRIGGER, but did show me rhe Left Wrist Trigger also.

During his Advance Schools, he went over several different procedures, and many Short Game shots. He knew more than just one procedure.

Lagster,

With Tommy, I only see consistency with teaching a Magic of the Right Forearm procedure (not a flavor of the month approach)...he taught it to Mark Evershed in the 1984/1985. I'm sure he taught it to Jodie Mudd in that time frame too (I have video of Jodie from the 1991 US Open, the downstroke action and finish look exactly like Tomasello). I have a 1988 video of Tommy, again teaching a Magic of the Right Forearm swing...in the 1989 Australia video we have Tommy teaching Australian PGA professionals a right forearm swing....in the 1991 Golf Illustrated interview, Right Forearm again...in 1992, it's the right forearm again with Lee Deitrick, in late 1993 Tommy's at it again teaching DG the Magic of the Right Forearm...and I believe Coophitter studied with Tommy in the 1992/1993 too, and again a Magic of the Right Forearm instruction. No sign of deviation. In fact, I believe the 1988 video clearly shows an instructor demonstrating mastery of an approach (a system of teaching with defined drills to achieve proper execution)...a Magic of the Right Forearm approach.

DG

[lagster]

Lagster,

With Tommy, I only see consistency with teaching a Magic of the Right Forearm procedure (not a flavor of the month approach)...he taught it to Mark Evershed in the 1984/1985. I'm sure he taught to Jodie Mudd in that time frame too (I have video of Jodie from the 1991 US Open, the downstroke action and finish look exactly like Tomasello). I have a 1988 video of Tommy, again teaching a Magic of the Right Forearm swing...in the 1989 Australia video we have Tommy teaching Australian PGA professionals a right forearm swing....in the 1991 Golf Illustrated interview, Right Forearm again...in 1992, it's the right forearm again with Lee Deitrick, in late 1993 Tommy's at it again teaching DG the Magic of the Right Forearm...and I believe Coophitter studied with Tommy in the 1992/1993 too, and again a Magic of the Right Forearm instruction. No sign of deviation. In fact, I believe the 1988 video clearly shows an instructor demonstrating mastery of an approach (a system of teaching with defined drills to achieve proper execution)...a Magic of the Right Forearm approach.

DG

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Yes, Tom really liked that Right Forearm procedure, but he knew about other procedures also. I worked with him many times.

He taught that Right Forearm procedure to many people, and many people liked it and had success with it. During his Advanced School... Tom demonstrated Classic Rope Handle Swinging, and Standard Hitting(he liked a Strong Double Action for Hitting), and could do both pretty well.

I believe the procedure Tom described in the Golf Illustrated Magazine, was the way he thought was probably the easiest way to play golf. The Right Forearm cocks Up and Down, and there is very little lateral motion of the Pivot.

Jodie Mudd was one of his famous students, but another one that did quite well was 2 time U.S. Senior Amateur Champion... Clarence Moore. Clarence used the Right Forearm Procedure when I saw him, and struck the ball beautifully. He would also use Standard Hitting at times, especially when he was between clubs.

[Delaware Golf]

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, Tom really liked that Right Forearm procedure, but he knew about other procedures also. I worked with him many times.

He taught that Right Forearm procedure to many people, and many people liked it and had success with it. During his Advanced School... Tom demonstrated Classic Rope Handle Swinging, and Standard Hitting(he liked a Strong Double Action for Hitting), and could do both pretty well.

I believe the procedure Tom described in the Golf Illustrated Magazine, was the way he thought was probably the easiest way to play golf. The Right Forearm cocks Up and Down, and there is very little lateral motion of the Pivot.

Jodie Mudd was one of his famous students, but another one that did quite well was 2 time U.S. Senior Amateur Champion... Clarence Moore. Clarence used the Right Forearm Procedure when I saw him, and struck the ball beautifully. He would also use Standard Hitting at times, especially when he was between clubs.

This is not a question of whether or not Tommy thought this was an easier procedure, the statment that I highlighted in the interview said leading with the hips and legs towards the target was terribly wrong versus being a different procedure. It's interesting that Tommy didn't teach Mark Evershed, Peter Croker, Lee Deitrick or Coophitter an advanced procedure there all PGA professionals?

In my lesson with Tommy, he said the hips don't generate power they only maintain velocity.

DG

[EdZ]

In my lesson with Tommy, he said the hips don't generate power they only maintain velocity.

DG

"except by direct extension of the swing radius to the feet"

The 'chain' needs to be as long as possible for max power - radius power.

[lagster]

This is not a question of whether or not Tommy thought this was an easier procedure, the statment that I highlighted in the interview said leading with the hips and legs towards the target was terribly wrong versus being a different procedure. It's interesting that Tommy didn't teach Mark Evershed, Peter Croker, Lee Deitrick or Coophitter an advanced procedure there all PGA professionals?

In my lesson with Tommy, he said the hips don't generate power they only maintain velocity.

DG

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, Tom used to have Schools. He had different ones. A kind of Basic School, Hitting School, and Advanced School. I'm not sure what Schools these guys went through, if any. Tom would also teach private lessons, mostly there in the studio upstairs at Deertrack.

At the ADVANCED SCHOOL, the procedures he taught were not necessarily more Advanced, they were just different procedures. Tom wanted students, especially teachers, to uderstand different procedures. I remember he said something like... "Today we will go out and see how Hogan swung the club," when he was teaching about Classic Swinging.

Now... if a student went there strictly as a PLAYER, he would probably not have them go into those different procedures much, if at all. They would most likely stay with that procedure written about in Golf Illustrated. I think much of what Tom taught in this procedure came from 7-3 in TGM.

[6bmike]

After listening to my private lesson tapes with Tomasello over the last few months, I have come to the conclusion that in no way was Tomasello trying to reinvent TGM. It's interesting that the above statement from Homer references 7-3....Magic of the Right Forearm???

DG

Too often, the pivot was (not here anymore) thought of as a power move as in let’s yank this sucker around to pull down the arms and let it rip. When in fact the pivot is a facilitator in the same manner a lumber company needs to build a road before it can harvest timber. The main concern of the pivot is not power but delivery. The pivot needs to delivery the hands before the clubhead can "sweetspot" the ball.

Also Lynn- Yoda’s first major series of posts were called “The Magic of the Right Forearm.” It is not just for TT’s procedures but the main motion for all of us. Watch a kid play T-Ball and he traces the horizontal plane with the bat, back and forth from the teed ball without a lesson in his life. Homer, Lynn and TT only helped us find the natural motion again.

[Delaware Golf]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes, Tom used to have Schools. He had different ones. A kind of Basic School, Hitting School, and Advanced School. I'm not sure what Schools these guys went through, if any. Tom would also teach private lessons, mostly there in the studio upstairs at Deertrack.

At the ADVANCED SCHOOL, the procedures he taught were not necessarily more Advanced, they were just different procedures. Tom wanted students, especially teachers, to uderstand different procedures. I remember he said something like... "Today we will go out and see how Hogan swung the club," when he was teaching about Classic Swinging.

Now... if a student went there strictly as a PLAYER, he would probably not have them go into those different procedures much, if at all. They would most likely stay with that procedure written about in Golf Illustrated. I think much of what Tom taught in this procedure came from 7-3 in TGM.

Thanks Lagster...