Can TGM help me ? First post !

[EdZ]

Dariusz - you've got a solid motion and as others have indicated, a face on view would help.

That said, it does appear that you are not maintaining the bend in your right wrist/flat left through impact, which results in a closed clubface, a clubface pull/pull hook.

Your backswing looks very solid in many respects. I would recommend you look a bit at your posture. A bit more bend from the hips and knee flex would likely put in you in a much better position such that you aren't forced to straighten out that right wrist to reach impact.

Two drills to work on -

first, try hitting chip shots with only your right hand. Focus on maintaining the bend in your right wrist, and the motion of your right forearm. Use small motions to begin. Try to drive the ball into the ground, from the inside - like kicking a football. Hand ahead. If you have trouble keeping the bend in your right wrist, try putting your left fist between the angle of the grip and the inside of your right forearm to 'lock' that angle.

Second - grip a club all the way down near the clubhead, with the shaft runnig up under your left arm and left side. Make small motions, no higher than hip to hip. If you don't keep that angle in your right wrist, you'll get smacked by the shaft/grip end on the left side of your chest. Focus on the straightening of the right arm, down and out.

Those two drills should get you feeling the bending back of the right wrist. You should find your impact is much more 'solid', and hear a nice 'click' on your chips.

As Mathew mentioned, the next stage after you have those chips down is to learn to rotate that left forearm after impact, so that you can maintain that bent right wrist. Don't be afraid to really rotate it at first. Make the motion, don't worry about the results for now.

As you get this down, you'll be able to use impact to show you the proper alignments (left arm in line with shaft, face on, right forearm in line with shaft, down the line). Practice that impact position, in balance, in front of a mirror.

[Dariusz J.]

Edz, thanks for a very informative post and advices. Please read my comments in red below:

Dariusz - you've got a solid motion and as others have indicated, a face on view would help.

That said, it does appear that you are not maintaining the bend in your right wrist/flat left through impact, which results in a closed clubface, a clubface pull/pull hook.

Your backswing looks very solid in many respects. I would recommend you look a bit at your posture. A bit more bend from the hips and knee flex would likely put in you in a much better position such that you aren't forced to straighten out that right wrist to reach impact.

Well, my spine bend angle is already pretty big - ca. 38-41 degrees depending on the club; I am not a very tall person (5'8"), therefore, I thought that it's big enough...

Two drills to work on -

first, try hitting chip shots with only your right hand. Focus on maintaining the bend in your right wrist, and the motion of your right forearm. Use small motions to begin. Try to drive the ball into the ground, from the inside - like kicking a football. Hand ahead. If you have trouble keeping the bend in your right wrist, try putting your left fist between the angle of the grip and the inside of your right forearm to 'lock' that angle.

Hmm...are you trying to say that my too inside DS path can be a result of a fault in hands at impact position ? Never thought this way...but it does make sense now. I like the drill you are describing. The more, I want to be a bit more ambidextrous golfer and to introduce my right hand pushing action into my downswing. I'll follow your advice without hesitation.

Second - grip a club all the way down near the clubhead, with the shaft runnig up under your left arm and left side. Make small motions, no higher than hip to hip. If you don't keep that angle in your right wrist, you'll get smacked by the shaft/grip end on the left side of your chest. Focus on the straightening of the right arm, down and out.

I used to make this drill from time to time in order not to go out of the form for chipping. It's a good drill, I agree.

Those two drills should get you feeling the bending back of the right wrist. You should find your impact is much more 'solid', and hear a nice 'click' on your chips.

As Mathew mentioned, the next stage after you have those chips down is to learn to rotate that left forearm after impact, so that you can maintain that bent right wrist. Don't be afraid to really rotate it at first. Make the motion, don't worry about the results for now.

Well, as I said before, I do not want to introduce a crossover release type (if we are talking about the same thing). Therefore, frankly, I don't like to work on rotation of the wrist...moreover, I have been recently workking on swinging the way that the clubface is perpendicular to the plane arc as long as it's possible. I believe you TGMers call it angled release...

As you get this down, you'll be able to use impact to show you the proper alignments (left arm in line with shaft, face on, right forearm in line with shaft, down the line). Practice that impact position, in balance, in front of a mirror.

Many thanks and cheers.

P.S. I will record and post my face-on swing video a.s.a.p. Alas, the weather conditions made it impossible to do it this weekend...

[nuke99]

My take on it is slightly a little different. I feel you got a pretty good swinging and also already doing a little OTT. Evidently your hips did not release ( causes a inward bend plane)and the club is already above the ball on its approach..

Jim Hardy uses a Punch , and Hitting move, thus angled hinging is more natural Your are mixing the physics of golf by swinging using punch elbow ,strong grip , angled hinging thus not being able to fade.

hitting= the assembly pushes the pressure point down the plane . and the pressure point basically stays more behind the club. the arm will have a no roll feel. Total control of the club instead of being controlled by it.

swinging = natural horizontal hinge. The momentum of the club will close the clubface naturally thus we react to the momentum of the club and the pressure points always faces inward and towards ourself. of course when mixing mechanics.. its going to be different.

You got to learn to have to learn the AXE Motion using a more rotary motion. See Ted Fort's hitter motion , understand hitter motion and use them in your "swing" ( More stuart appleby?)

Or you can use your natural swinging motion and use a pitch elbow and a more neutral grip. Open your plane line to play a fade. ( Hogan fights a hook)

both are valid models.

My layman 2 cents worth of tgm + "one plane" swing

[Dariusz J.]

Thanks, Nuke. I wonder how do you know that I am close to Hardy's OP swing theory ?

My take on it is slightly a little different. I feel you got a pretty good swinging and also already doing a little OTT. Evidently your hips did not release ( causes a inward bend plane)and the club is already above the ball on its approach..

Jim Hardy uses a Punch , and Hitting move, thus angled hinging is more natural Your are mixing the physics of golf by swinging using punch elbow ,strong grip , angled hinging thus not being able to fade.

Could you elaborate a bit wider the above sentence ? What is a punch elbow ? And do you think my grip is strong ? I thought I've weakened it more to the neutral one, but maybe still to less..


hitting= the assembly pushes the pressure point down the plane . and the pressure point basically stays more behind the club. the arm will have a no roll feel. Total control of the club instead of being controlled by it.

swinging = natural horizontal hinge. The momentum of the club will close the clubface naturally thus we react to the momentum of the club and the pressure points always faces inward and towards ourself. of course when mixing mechanics.. its going to be different.

You got to learn to have to learn the AXE Motion using a more rotary motion. See Ted Fort's hitter motion , understand hitter motion and use them in your "swing" ( More stuart appleby?)

OK, what is AXE Motion ? Where can I see Ted Fort's hitter motion ?

Or you can use your natural swinging motion and use a pitch elbow and a more neutral grip. Open your plane line to play a fade. ( Hogan fights a hook)

What is a pitch elbow ?

both are valid models.

My layman 2 cents worth of tgm + "one plane" swing

Sorry for so many questions but this is just my first serious trip into the depth of TGM golf school

Cheers

[nuke99]

I guess when you mentioned OP you meant Jim Hardy.. He is the one who named the swing One plane , two plane swing.

However in TGM, the world is divided into Swinger and Hitters, right arm and left arm swing, Hand or body controlled swing. Regardless of the quantity of plane TGM use, On Plane is a must to good golf. Thats the beauty of TGM, explaining why things works with the compatible combinations. Beautiful book.

it may be worth to mention that somebody who is a TGM and created quite similar swing components as Jim Hardy. Namely Mac O'grady. His ideal model is pretty close to OP. Yet he have many flight patterns . and his preference is angled hinging too.

Have fun here, I learn tons and I met alot of good people here.

[Dariusz J.]

...OK, I have understood 2 important things already:

1. I need to have the Book before going deeply into discussion on this Forum.

2. I need to convert from a Swinger to a Hitter since I've got a lot of Hitter's elements in my motion. *

* I've already started training aimed at activation of my right arm during swing. I need to be an ambidextrous person in golf (funny, because I am 100% right-handed person and in golf I am pulling with my left hand like backhand in tennis). I want to play this season with OP swing - if I can 'activate' my right side, it would be more Hardy style, if not - more Quinton style with passive arms.
I plan to buy and red your TGM Book this year and start to deepen it in late autumn.

The last thing I intend to do here now is to record and post a face-on view video. Weather prognosis here in Poland says that by the end of the week winter is gone for good.

Cheers

[golfbulldog]

...OK, I have understood 2 important things already:

1. I need to have the Book before going deeply into discussion on this Forum.

2. I need to convert from a Swinger to a Hitter since I've got a lot of Hitter's elements in my motion. *

* I've already started training aimed at activation of my right arm during swing. I need to be an ambidextrous person in golf (funny, because I am 100% right-handed person and in golf I am pulling with my left hand like backhand in tennis). I want to play this season with OP swing - if I can 'activate' my right side, it would be more Hardy style, if not - more Quinton style with passive arms.
I plan to buy and red your TGM Book this year and start to deepen it in late autumn.

The last thing I intend to do here now is to record and post a face-on view video. Weather prognosis here in Poland says that by the end of the week winter is gone for good.

Cheers

Darius...please do not decide on the fact that you want to play "with a one plane swing"...

Where in that book by Jim Hardy does he explain how a one plane swing optimises your impact interval ( the time during which the ball is in contact with your clubhead)... PLEASE ignore the number of planes you have... the crucial thing is the alignments... and you really don't need the book to have a clear understanding of the alignments / imperatives...

a one or 2 plane swing is what the video camera sees ... not what the ball sees!!!!... The ball sees the alignments through impact interval....

I promise you that is what TGM is all about!! We use references to be specific to detail.... but the heart and soul of Homer Kelley's work is :-

3 Imperatives

1.FLAT LEFT WRIST / BENT RIGHT WRIST

2.CLUBHEAD LAG

3.STRAIGHT PLANE LINE

If you have these 3 things and a zillion plane swing ( Hardy's sequel!!! ) then you will have a much better season than if you have a one -plane swing but no understanding of these 3 things...

Really... i can not stress this enough!!!!!!!

PLEASE.... 3 imperatives.... that is all

Lets start a new thread to really get this done....hit or swing ... we will come to this later... remember Nuke started as swinger and then told he was more hitter so his advice may be slightly biased ... as all instruction is!!

BUT 3 imperatives first!!!! please... a crate of your finest vodka delivered to your door if i am wrong about this!!!

[nuke99]

Quinton style.. he is a swinger.. and trust me, he roll his arms more than we think. that is why he uses neutral grip. in my opinion he barely use punch elbow for most of his shots. he is not that passive arms as you think.

Hardy, hitter. Now this is passive arms.

Now both of them wants you to use maximum pivot delivery. I say its the same thing but one is a swing and the other a hit with very little component switch. A hit or a swing, is very much a person choice , but you have a more natural Swing motion.. changing to hit will take much longer. So, just take neutral grip, pitch elbow, do a little work on sequential release ( karate chop), keep the rest of your motion and you should learn to do it relatively quickly . I would say this is the quick fix areas.

Both of this person will never teach you, Flat left wrist, LAG, Compression, Power, ( from 98 mph to 112 mph average for me)which you can only learn properly in TGM.. i suggest viewing the videos by Jeff Hull, Lynn Blake , Ben Doyle, Ted Fort to have an idea. these are work in progress. Now this takes tons of time to see results,, especially if you don't have a TGM coach beside you.

^_^ once you know how to do it.. you will be hooked.

[Dariusz J.]

I promise you that is what TGM is all about!! We use references to be specific to detail.... but the heart and soul of Homer Kelley's work is :-

3 Imperatives

1.FLAT LEFT WRIST / BENT RIGHT WRIST

2.CLUBHEAD LAG

3.STRAIGHT PLANE LINE

If you have these 3 things and a zillion plane swing ( Hardy's sequel!!! ) then you will have a much better season than if you have a one -plane swing but no understanding of these 3 things...


GB, thanks for this post. Well, you can believe or not but even not being a TGMer I knew that those 3 imperatives are keys for good golf.
Flat left wrist/bent right wrist is something we mortals call as a push release.
That's why I never put special attention to the most common crossover release type.
Clubhead lag - well, it depends what kind of lag we are talking about - dorsi flexion right wrist lag (right wrist bent) or radial deviation right wrist lag (right wrist cock). Push release (bent right wrist) favours the first one, unless someone is so gifted to transfer the wrist cocking lag in the first part of the DS into the wrist bent lag in the middle of the DS. If a golfer cannot transfer it soon enough he is left with a crossover release type. This is how I understand lag in my plain language.
Srtraight plane line - yes, this is the ideal we all should go for.

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

Quinton style.. he is a swinger.. and trust me, he roll his arms more than we think. that is why he uses neutral grip. in my opinion he barely use punch elbow for most of his shots. he is not that passive arms as you think.

Hardy, hitter. Now this is passive arms.

Now both of them wants you to use maximum pivot delivery. I say its the same thing but one is a swing and the other a hit with very little component switch. A hit or a swing, is very much a person choice , but you have a more natural Swing motion.. changing to hit will take much longer. So, just take neutral grip, pitch elbow, do a little work on sequential release ( karate chop), keep the rest of your motion and you should learn to do it relatively quickly . I would say this is the quick fix areas.

Both of this person will never teach you, Flat left wrist, LAG, Compression, Power, ( from 98 mph to 112 mph average for me)which you can only learn properly in TGM.. i suggest viewing the videos by Jeff Hull, Lynn Blake , Ben Doyle, Ted Fort to have an idea. these are work in progress. Now this takes tons of time to see results,, especially if you don't have a TGM coach beside you.

^_^ once you know how to do it.. you will be hooked.

Nuke, where I can find an explanation what is a Punch Elbow and what is a Pitch Elbow ? What is a sequential karate chop release ? It will help me to understand what you are talking about

BTW, as you see I am here in this room...that's why I already before classified myself as a Swinger. I agree to you 100% - I'd prefer to use my natural tendency instead of changing for Hitter's motion, since it's very hard for me to activate my right hand. I am really very willing to try TGM method but I need a starting point. It seems for me that it's hard to do it without at least full basic knowledge that I suffer with.

Cheers