In the 3rd edition Homer seemed to have a liking of the Elbow Plane vs. the Turned Shoulder. Check out the descriptions below . . .
10-6-A. ELBOW Wher the Right Elbow touches the waist is the reference point used for this Plane Angle. It is the "flattest" normal Plane that will still allow the Right Forearm to to be On Plane during Impact. This means that normally the Right Forearm will be moving at right angles to the torso - which are the unexcelled alignments for Right Forearm Power and Control.
Remember - the Right Forearm cannot become "On Plane" until the Right Elbow becomes "On Plane."
He didn't give much on the Turned Shoulder Plane in the 3rd . . .
10-6-B. TURNED SHOULDER This reference point is primarly the point reached by the Right Shoulder after a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn. But any other controlled Shoulder Turn can also provide an acceptable reference point. See 10-13-0.
But in the 7th Homer seems to "shift" his favorite Plane . . . .
10-6-A ELBOW Where the Right Elbow touches the waist is the reference point used for this Plane Angle. It is the “flattest” normal Plane that will still allow the Right Forearm to be On Plane during Impact. This should produce a very flat Angle of Attack (2-B) with reduced Backspin and should be avoided for Short Shots unless it is also part of your Full Stroke Pattern. The Elbow Plane allows maximum #3 Accumulator requiring earlier Release per 6-N-0. This procedure is executed by the Right Forearm per 7-3 and 10-6-B and Elbow Location per 6-B-3-0-1.
10-6-B TURNED SHOULDER This reference point is primarily the point reached by the Right Shoulder after a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn. But any other controlled Shoulder Turn can also provide an acceptable reference point. See 10-13-0. This Plane Angle has far better performance characteristics than any other because any Plane Angle Shift is very hazardous. This procedure does not refer to the disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway – which is always too “Flat” and/or too “Low” making a Plane Angle Shift mandatory and usually unintentional and unsuspected. Study 7-3 and 10-24-F.
Is he saying that due to the Shoulder Turn requirements of the Elbow Plane that there is a manditory Shift in the Plane Angle?
What was the reasoning for the elimination of the stuff about the Right Fo'arm moving at 90 degrees to the torso?
Is he saying that due to the Shoulder Turn requirements of the Elbow Plane that there is a manditory Shift in the Plane Angle?
What was the reasoning for the elimination of the stuff about the Right Fo'arm moving at 90 degrees to the torso?
Also why would the Elbow Plane reduce backspin?
Yes. You simply can't stay (or even really start) on the elbow plane without the shoulders accomodating, and unless you made a very non golf like motion, you have to shift.
The right forearm/torso alignment from release to follow through is powerful, but requires exact/precise amounts of spine angle, #3 angle and knee/hip action to reproduce. If I recall from photos, I think the series of Mac O'Grady from GD 1983 (or was it 87), show him in those alignments.
Elbow plane reduces backspin because it requires a shallow angle of attack.
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"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Curious too that HK recommended we stay away from the elbow plane for short shots unless we use in our full swings?
In my first lesson with Yoda I asked him about the elbow plane lob shot and he called Vj on his cell to describe the shot to me. Not sure how happy VJ was about this or what we were taking him away from but he kindly described in detail how to pull it off. Hands low low low,feels like your almost lower than the elbow plane, right forearm on plane as best you can, ball further away from you to accommodate all of this, stay on the elbow plane going back, blade wide open, feet planted throughout etc etc. It works better and is easier than you'd imagine and produces what we used to call a "parachute lob". Straight up and straight down with the stop coming form ballistics rather than spin.
The advantage of this shot given its relative complexity is that the shallow angle of attack takes almost all of the "down" out of the shot. Lots of out , hardly any down. Which means you have a larger margin for error in the strike. No divot , just a very shallow, super long scalping of the grass.
I use it when I must otherwise I keep it simple and just vertical hinge and maybe cut a chip or pitch.
I think its not so hard to pull off however and I dont return to the elbow plane for full shots. I taught my brother who is 15 handicap the shot. What gives with Homers warning?
Guys, as a side question, is there an advantage to returning to the elbow plane for a full shot? HOgan , Moe, Knudson, O'Grady all did it I think. Not bad ball strikers ,eh? Is this a personal preference, body type, or an ideal plane for some reason? Advantages/disadvantages? As a turned shoulder guy who sometimes comes in above plane should I experiment with returning to the elbow plane? Or am I already in enough trouble with my sorry action? Vertical drop anyone?
I would rather be slightly above plane than anywhere below....when I get below plane I can lose PP3 and hit the dreaded hosel rocket.
A lot of great ball strikers are on the elbow plane and most still are double shifters....some shift even more.
A lot of tour pros start out on the hands only, shift through the elbow plane and land on the turned shoulder (some, like Mayfair, Hoch and Couples, get up to the Squared Shoulder) and then come back down and hit the ball on the elbow plane
I would rather be slightly above plane than anywhere below....when I get below plane I can lose PP3 and hit the dreaded hosel rocket.
A lot of great ball strikers are on the elbow plane and most still are double shifters....some shift even more.
A lot of tour pros start out on the hands only, shift through the elbow plane and land on the turned shoulder (some, like Mayfair, Hoch and Couples, get up to the Squared Shoulder) and then come back down and hit the ball on the elbow plane
I have asked about this before ..what did homer k consider to be correct elbow plane Perpendicular forarm to spine angle at impact would seem to be true elbow plane rather than than a larger degree angle
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