Got in a quick 18 last night. I'm playing in bifocals, so I'm not keeping my head upright enough for my shoulders to turn right -- not the greatest ball striking night.
However, I hit a tee shot on the 181 yd par 3 17th that was the way I want to hit every shot. Powerful, effortless, ball mark two feet from the hole, high, hint of draw. Stroke was just like I planned -- hitter's stroke, from top, angled hinge, bacon strip divot, mind in hands, not even a whiff of flip.
I WANT THAT FEELING EVERY TIME!
I first picked up the game in college and I think I was a natural hitter (former athlete, good at most any sport I've picked up). My standard tee shot was a 3-wood of the ground. Just beat down hard and away it would go (cheap laminated real "wood" wood). I then read everything I could on golf and got the idea that we should swing around our spines (i.e. the hinge is there and not in the left shoulder). Further, I bought into the return to address position view. So my natural "swing" is a flip, and it can go pretty well if timed right...
Thank goodness for this group! Lynn, the DVD, the resources here, everyone else -- thank you. I've been working on my hitting stroke all summer (DVD only lately -- my advice to all is get it before you start!). It's coming -- I shot a 39 (with 2 balls OB). I'm actually looking forward to focusing on the drills when it's cold, because it is hard to monitor your actions in full swing mode.
Okay, enough confession...here's to compression -- may we all achieve it at will!
Brian, I'm with you 100%. I suspect nearly every person here thinks in a similar vein.
Compression is addicting. And, like you, since winter is almost here (Minn) I look forward to a lot of basica and acquired motion through the winter.
I can't get this idea out of my head that Flipping is an inherent result of "Swiveling" through Impact, and Hinging produces the opposite result. With Hinging, the more likely outcome would be a slightly Bowed Left Wrist.
I'm going to spend part of this Winter working toward more understanding of these two very different procedures.
Swiveling, in the general sense, seems to be about rotation about the Longitudinal Axis of the Club or Left Arm or Both, while Hinging is about Rotation about an axis perpendicular to an associated Plane, totally about sustaining the Lag. These are completely different types of Rotation. One is just as easy to apply as the other.
A Player cannot "Flip" with the #3 PP Dragging the Clubhead through Impact and Follow-through.
So Swiveling, in the general sense, as applied as an Impact Procedure will always Bend the Plane Line, while Hinging insists that the Clubhead Orbit remain undisturbed, thus not bending the Plane Line.
A Player cannot "Flip" with the #3 PP Dragging the Clubhead through Impact and Follow-through.
Great points. I know I often get too wrapped up in watching angles when I know the whole point should be maintaining pressure. Thank you for the excellent reminder.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Swiveling, in the general sense, seems to be about rotation about the Longitudinal Axis of the Club or Left Arm or Both, while Hinging is about Rotation about an axis perpendicular to an associated Plane, totally about sustaining the Lag. These are completely different types of Rotation. One is just as easy to apply as the other.
A Player cannot "Flip" with the #3 PP Dragging the Clubhead through Impact and Follow-through.
I feel like the "bad" swing image for me is the "around the spine" view of how the swing works rather than the low point opposite left should construct. If you view the center of the arc as your spine, the club head would pass the hands at mid body. (At least this is the geometry that I had in my head.) I was also taught to "throw" the barrel of the baseball bat versus pushing. Bad imagery of how leading to bad mechanics.
There will always be good days and bad days. On the good days there isn't much need for swing thinking; Address the ball. Everything looks and feels OK. Do the motion. It is on the other days that our image of the swing mechanics makes the biggest difference. What we try to do when something in the stroke is broke is depending of our understanding of the mechanics involved.
With an inadequate understanding things tend to get worse the harder we try to fix it. Typical examples are the slicers who produces their biggest slice when they absolutely can't affort a leak towards right field. And the hooker(*cough*) who snaps the drive when they absolutely can't afford a curved ball off the Tee. And the typical trap that most golfers with a history has been in several times: The more we try to fix the swing on the course the worse it gets.
With an adequate understanding there is a better chance that we get back on track, or at least keep the problems under control and save the score until the stroke returns. And I also believe playing and practicing with an adequate understanding of cause and effect gives promise of long term improvement.
Most people will experience improvement if they take a few lessons and practice a lot. Or simply play and practice a lot. Very often their best doesn't get any better though. They're still the same golfer with the same swing and the same limitations. But they're in good form. That's all.
I've come to believe that fundamental long term improvement goes hand in hand with a better understanding of causes and effects in the golf stroke. Knowing what you're doing can make a big difference.
1) standard flip where I have the wrong image that I'm swinging around my spine -- I slow my hands and the club head passes them.
2) right hand gets confused and pushes the club head through versus pushing PP #1. Do this one and you can hit it fat, hit it thin, darn near miss it! This one usually happens with the driver. I swear I can hit like a top spin forehand with a driver with this flip.
3) This last one is my real nemesis now. I'm not even sure if "flip" is the right term, but the club head passes my hands. I don't know if this is "running out of right arm". Here is what happens. I manage to screw up either my hip action (no slide) or not get my right should down the plane (maybe more like over the top). I'm trying to push, but, well, there's no way to hit the ball without flipping the club head into it versus driving through it. I lose about 10 yards on the shot, it's usually toed, and moves with hook/draw action. Playable, but no where near the compression I'm capable of...
So, I'll be dragging my wet mop all winter and be looking to "do well with dowels" to combat the evil flip. Basic motion for a few months is bound to help, too.
There will always be good days and bad days. On the good days there isn't much need for swing thinking; Address the ball. Everything looks and feels OK. Do the motion. It is on the other days that our image of the swing mechanics makes the biggest difference. What we try to do when something in the stroke is broke is depending of our understanding of the mechanics involved.
With an inadequate understanding things tend to get worse the harder we try to fix it. Typical examples are the slicers who produces their biggest slice when they absolutely can't affort a leak towards right field. And the hooker(*cough*) who snaps the drive when they absolutely can't afford a curved ball off the Tee. And the typical trap that most golfers with a history has been in several times: The more we try to fix the swing on the course the worse it gets.
You are right there. If you understand the mechanics, you are way ahead.
One thing, it's better to stop trying to think through the swing. Better to concentrate on something like an Impact point or tracing. Just give the conscious mind something to do and let the subconscious take over.
I believe in the four stages of learning physical behavior -- unconsciously incompetent, consciously incompetent, consciously competent, unconsciously competent. Driving is a great example. You don't remember driving home from work today. You did it very competently, but you didn't "10 and 2" it like a student driver thinking about every lane change, etc.
Your golf swing (any athletic endeavor, really) should be the same -- select the pattern to fit the situation, visualize the shot then step in and execute.
The drills in slow motion I think are a great way to get to feel the swing and ingrain the motions and feels. Basic Motion also being a great way to isolate the mechanics and feel of impact.
Brian, I am like you - a flipper for 42 years (I'm 55 now), that is, if I actually hit the ball. And also like you, I wear bifocals (very thick lenses too), but I don't need bifocals to look at the ball on the ground. But unlike you, I have yet to discover what true compression looks and feels like. I am not a long hitter at all (drives <200 yards and sliced, 8i 90 yards, pw 60 yards). I average 44 putts per round too. That all needs to change in 2011 big time.
I have KevCarter, JerryG and others helping me with Basic Motion right now. Even that is difficult to avoid throwaway (see my YouTube videos under jkpassage).
You are in the right place. While the information is often highly technical, just glean what you can and go from there.
Unfortunately, flipping isn't defined in the TGM definitions section. If it were, I guess it would be someting like: "Loss of lag pressure prior to impact due to a bent left wrist".
However
There are several relatives to this swing fault, that may or may not share both of the conditions. For instance:
The "false flip" A left wrist that is bent at address, impact and throughout the back swing, but where there is still lag pressure. As long as the shaft end of the club is pointing ahead of the swing center. Not the left shoulder, but the real swing center. This is a "good" partner to the swiveling that Daryl mentioned. In all other respects than the clubshaft being inline with the left arm, one could say that the left wrist is geometrically flat. I played with a bent left wrist for some two years. I used a weak grip and had the fastest acc#2 release I've ever had. The 5 iron went at least as long as today, only with the height of a full 9 iron. I hit everything high and with a slight draw. I could hold a cement green with the long irons and a pinnacle ball with that swing. I could hit a 1 iron out of light rough. But it was high mentenance and one spring when I took out the clubs it was gone.
The "punch flip". A left wrist that is still arched or flat at impact, but in a process of bending. There will still be lag pressure. One cold argue that this flip will work as a 5th accumulator, but there will be an unbalance in the rhythm that must be negotiated. I push hard on pp#1 & pp#3 through impact. If I don't keep the left side moving I get this kind of flip. There's still a lot of lag pressure, but the divot is deep and sometimes there isn't plenty of lag pressure
THe "break down" flip: A bent left wrist due to a vertical or angled hinge action in the hands. This is possibly the worst of them all and the one I suspect that Homer struggled with when he started golf. I certainly know I was fighting it for the first years as a golfer. But the mother of the power leak is that the whole left side gets disconnected and the "rope" gets loose.
The "swivel flip". (the one that Daryl brought forward) I associate that with a pure swing where you freewheel through the ball and sweep the grass. It can still produce good distance and decent result even though there is less lag pressure, less spin and a less penetrating ball flight.
PS Daryl,
I'm wondering whether the "swivel flip" pattern you talk about is the same animal that is being criticised in a few other fora as being the TGM swing.
that Flipping is an inherent result of "Swiveling" through Impact, and Hinging produces the opposite result. With Hinging, the more likely outcome would be a slightly Bowed Left Wrist. 
Hybrid Mode
