If a club is on plane when it points at the base of the inclined plane, when is a clubshaft on plane when it does not point at the target line?
I guess the question is, why would we shift the baseline to the right of the target line?
An On Plane Clubshaft -- actually, per 2-F, the Centrifugal Line of Pull from the Sweet Spot to the #3 Pressure Point / right index finger, for which the Clubshaft is a suitable proxy -- always points at the Baseline of the Inclined Plane unless they are parallel (1-L #6).
The only reason to Rotate the normally Square Baseline (10-5-A) to the right, i.e., into a Closed alignment (10-5-E) is to produce -- depending on the Clubface alignment at Separation -- Hooks, Pushes and Pushed Cuts.
The false notion that the Baseline of the Plane must 'shift' to the right during the Downstroke is a holdover from the error in Ben Hogan's Five Lessons (pp. 87-89). It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. The Clubhead Orbit does not shift from a Square Plane Line to a Closed Plane Line. Instead, it continues Down-and-Out on the same Inclined Plane through Impact. With the Ball positioned prior to Low Point -- opposite the Left Shoulder -- this does indeed result in an Inside-Out Impact (Hogan's stated objective). But . . .
It does not result in an Inside-Out Stroke (Hogan's unfortunate explanation). Study 2-J-2.
In fact, in all geometrically-correct Strokes, Impact is always 'Inside-Out', i.e., Downplane through Impact to Low Point (1-L #13 and #14). This is true whether the Plane Line is Square (On-Line Stroke), Open (Outside-In Stroke) or Closed (Inside-Out Stroke).
An On Plane Clubshaft -- actually, per 2-F, the Centrifugal Line of Pull from the Sweet Spot to the #3 Pressure Point / right index finger, for which the Clubshaft is a suitable proxy -- always points at the Baseline of the Inclined Plane unless they are parallel (1-L #6).
The only reason to Rotate the normally Square Baseline (10-5-A) to the right, i.e., into a Closed alignment (10-5-E) is to produce -- depending on the Clubface alignment at Separation -- Hooks, Pushes and Pushed Cuts.
The false notion that the Baseline of the Plane must 'shift' to the right during the Downstroke is a holdover from the error in Ben Hogan's Five Lessons (pp. 87-89). It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. The Clubhead Orbit does not shift from a Square Plane Line to a Closed Plane Line. Instead, it continues Down-and-Out on the same Inclined Plane through Impact. With the Ball positioned prior to Low Point -- opposite the Left Shoulder -- this does indeed result in an Inside-Out Impact (Hogan's stated objective). But . . .
It does not result in an Inside-Out Stroke (Hogan's unfortunate explanation). Study 2-J-2.
In fact, in all geometrically-correct Strokes, Impact is always 'Inside-Out', i.e., Downplane through Impact to Low Point (1-L #13 and #14). This is true whether the Plane Line is Square (On-Line Stroke), Open (Outside-In Stroke) or Closed (Inside-Out Stroke).
While quite appropriate- your post meets one of the qualifications for a "fluff post" - less than 10letters and therefore will not count towards your G.O.L.F. watch, that you're expecting when you reach your 4000th post! Bagger please remove it from the running total- that'll put him back to eleven. P.S. Your sister was fantastic!
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While quite appropriate- your post meets one of the qualifications for a "fluff post" - less than 10letters and therefore will not count towards your G.O.L.F. watch, that you're expecting when you reach your 4000th post! Bagger please remove it from the running total- that'll put him back to eleven. P.S. Your sister was fantastic!
I assume you think the above is in keeping with your hobby . . . "creating quality?"
I told you she was JUST LIKE A MAN!!!! Hope it didn't hurt. shhhhhhhHEEEEEEE's the best.
An On Plane Clubshaft -- actually, per 2-F, the Centrifugal Line of Pull from the Sweet Spot to the #3 Pressure Point / right index finger, for which the Clubshaft is a suitable proxy -- always points at the Baseline of the Inclined Plane unless they are parallel (1-L #6).
The only reason to Rotate the normally Square Baseline (10-5-A) to the right, i.e., into a Closed alignment (10-5-E) is to produce -- depending on the Clubface alignment at Separation -- Hooks, Pushes and Pushed Cuts.
The false notion that the Baseline of the Plane must 'shift' to the right during the Downstroke is a holdover from the error in Ben Hogan's Five Lessons (pp. 87-89). It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. The Clubhead Orbit does not shift from a Square Plane Line to a Closed Plane Line. Instead, it continues Down-and-Out on the same Inclined Plane through Impact. With the Ball positioned prior to Low Point -- opposite the Left Shoulder -- this does indeed result in an Inside-Out Impact (Hogan's stated objective). But . . .
It does not result in an Inside-Out Stroke (Hogan's unfortunate explanation). Study 2-J-2.
In fact, in all geometrically-correct Strokes, Impact is always 'Inside-Out', i.e., Downplane through Impact to Low Point (1-L #13 and #14). This is true whether the Plane Line is Square (On-Line Stroke), Open (Outside-In Stroke) or Closed (Inside-Out Stroke).
Nice. This with a little post Low Point extrapolation also answers the question "When are we swinging left?"
Any perceived references to a trade marked swing methodology is purely coincidental or resides inside the head of the reader solely. Swing Left yes but On Plane, post Low Point when the club head is traveling Forward, Up and In but the Thrust continues towards the Plane Line, Forward , Down and Out to Both Arms Straight. Per 1-L-10.
Nice. This with a little post Low Point extrapolation also answers the question "When are we swinging left?"
Any perceived references to a trade marked swing methodology is purely coincidental or resides inside the head of the reader solely. Swing Left yes but On Plane, post Low Point when the club head is traveling Forward, Up and In but the Thrust continues towards the Plane Line, Forward , Down and Out to Both Arms Straight. Per 1-L-10.
This is an interesting deal . . . . Thrust of what?
Here's another thing to knaw on a bit . . . if the hands are also swinging in something considered an arc . . . would they not reach their low point PRIOR to the clubhead reaching it's low point? I have found for me anyway that once I figured out the down and out portion I over did it and actually ended up shifting the plane line out. For me now my hands have to work left for the club to stay on plane and keep going out to get the throw out on plane.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 10-19-2009 at 02:43 PM.
This is an interesting deal . . . . Thrust of what?
Here's another thing to knaw on a bit . . . if the hands are also swinging in something considered an arc . . . would they not reach their low point PRIOR to the clubhead reaching it's low point? I have found for me anyway that once I figured out the down and out portion I over did it and actually ended up shifting the plane line out. For me now my hands have to work left for the club to stay on plane and keep going out to get the throw out on plane.
The Thrust (an Acceleration force) May be Muscular (Right Arm) Force and/or Centrifugal Force (Pivot). Thrust is the strong pressure of one part of a structure against another.
Regarding your Hands reaching their Low Point, it depends on if their is movement of the center (Left Shoulder for a Left Arm Stroke) to get to its Impact Fix location.
This is an interesting deal . . . . Thrust of what?
Ill defer to Drewit on the "Thrust of what?". But if the Hands are moving On Plane, Post Low Point, Forward ,Up and In (left if you will) the Thrust IS felt in the Pressure Points and directed straight line Forward, Down and Out towards the Plane Line.
The Swinging Left guys who "cut it" left with their Hands are courting an Off Plane Thrust!
The Left thing is maybe in our terms described as the Rythm of Angled Hinge Action. The delayed overtaking of the Hands by the Clubhead associated with the shorter clubhead travel of Angled Hinge Action. Perhaps this is what those Swinging Left players are really feeling though they describe it as a leftward move of the hands.
You can find pictures of Trevino , often , or Hogan occasionally doing this Angled Hinge Action or swinging left but its not "The Way". Its merely "A Way" and a way that if not Aligned to the Plane is another form of position golf. You cant just say "cut" your hands hard to the left and expect them to be Aligned. The Plane still rules. Geometrically Oriented Linear Force. "Left", could mean anything. Homer would ask "left yes, but how much and why?" Its Plane Angle dependent geometrically and Hinge Action dependent in feeling.
Infamous Hogan Swing-Left Picture:
Is He Swinging Left or is He Swinging On-Plane (Elbow Plane) after Impact?
Staying On-Plane after Impact requires the Pivot to keep Turning Left for Any Swing Plane employed. Otherwise, if the Hips Slow, or Stop, the Hands will Rise off-Plane.
His often "High Hands" Finish is a sign of his Pivot Motion continuing to lead then abruptly slowed, and just as often, "Low Hands" Finish is a sign of the Hands overtaking the Pivot.
Ignore the Lines:
Just another thought: I wonder if golfers stop their Pivots in an unconscious effort to allow the Hands to travel towards the Target with the mistaken notion of a baseball or basketball throw? Steering.
Hybrid Mode
