Just for fun, what are the results if you start your swing...
Originally Posted by BC85
Howdy Everyone,
The last month has served as my introduction to learning "The Golfing Machine". Although I know my basics (such as the three imperatives/essentials, hinge actions, flying wedges, etc.), I am having difficulty analysing my own pattern/stroke/swing and identifying mechanical faults. I was hoping you guys could provide assistance.
Before I describe the issues I am experiencing, I feel that I should provide a summary of my situation. I am 25 years old, 6'4", have above average athletic ability (based on other sports, not necessarily golf), and currently play off a 3.7 handicap (although, I haven't played much golf in the last three years). My goal is to progress as far as my abilities will allow.
The current issues I have with my pattern/stroke/swing revolve around consistency. I am satisfied with the distance that I strike the golf ball (although, who is going to say no to more distance?), so I would really like to focus on increasing accuracy and decreasing the severity of my misses.
My current pattern/stroke/swing can be seen on my YouTube channel posted below. I will try to upload additional videos with various angles (including down-the-line) in the near future.
My misses are primarily pulls with the divots pointing left (i.e. out-to-in path) and I appear to have an over-the-top move at the start of the downswing. I make an effort to exaggerate the in-to-out path on the downswing, but the results can be inconsistent and it feels more like a compensation than a solution. I have a feeling that my pivot may be the root cause, but I'm sure you TGM gurus will know better than me.
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
...from the Impact Fix position? Since impact is the test and the ball is a blabbermouth, maybe starting from Impact Fix would reveal the need for a longer pivot before release or too much head movement, or ball position adjustments, or too quick of a Flying Wedge (your hands) release? When I started using the Impact Fix position, I was able to reverse engineer a lot of insights. My hcp. is still a 15 so I'm not saying I know your solution but TGM gives a person a lot of perspectives to examine and the Impact Fix idea has given me lots of new ideas and insights.
Welcome.
Patrick
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Thank you all for replying, I really appreciate it.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
A couple of things . . . if your ball is starting LEFT it's because of the FACE. You may not be over the top . . . you could just have the face rotating too fast or just not open enough. Do you hit pull hooks or pull slices?
I may be misunderstanding this matter (so correct me if I'm wrong), but if the ball is starting left due to a closed club-face only, shouldn't the divot still be pointing straight along the target line? Due to all my divots pointing left of the target line on my misses, I just assumed it was a path/plane issue. I generally hit pull hooks but occasionally hit pull slices as well.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
To your question on plane . . . your arc is going to be more acute (sharper) depending on the plane angle you select if you imagine your hand covering a line on the ground. Ideally you'd like to stay on the same arc the whole time back and through. The steeper the plane angle the more close the "arc" or "line" will be closer to "straight" back.
That makes perfect sense, thank you.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
The ball for the most part is going to START OUT WHERE THE FACE IS LOOKING AND CURVE AWAY FROM THE PATH. The face is generally worth about 85% of the start line NOT THE PATH.
Should I research the D-Plane more (if this is what you're referring to)?
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Hard to say without a down the line but it looks like you could "use the ground" LONGER . . . try to move your pivot longer where you feel like you're going to hit pushes. Keep the pivot going and it will keep the face from rolling as fast.
I will try to get some more video (with face-on and down-the-line angles) uploaded tonight.
I agree in regards to the pivot. However, I don't know how to execute it correctly. I have tried the drills in "Alignment Golf" but it hasn't worked for me. This was my downfall whilst trying "Stack and Tilt" as well, as I was unable to slide my hips laterally.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
Research "Startdown Waggles".
I will look into it, thanks.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
Since golf is played on an Inclined Plane the clubhead does move in to out as it approaches the ball! This will produce the straight divot! (which actually has a little arc to it) Trying to hold the clubheads path in a straight line is "Steering" and non planar. Keep swinging out till your divots go straight.
This has been my main effort (consciously swinging in-to-out) since I am unable to execute the pivot correctly. At times it feels like I am swinging out 45 degrees. However, would this be considered a compensation or is it a feeling that is making me perform the mechanics correctly?
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
Get into 2-C-0 until you understand the correct impact geometry and the difference between it and all three forms of Steering. Much of the book will open up for you after you get the correct impact geometry sorted out.
I'll also look in this, thanks.
Originally Posted by innercityteacher
Since impact is the test and the ball is a blabbermouth, maybe starting from Impact Fix would reveal the need for a longer pivot before release or too much head movement, or ball position adjustments, or too quick of a Flying Wedge (your hands) release? When I started using the Impact Fix position, I was able to reverse engineer a lot of insights.
"Impact Fix" confuses me slightly. Is it just to create a feeling of impact before playing the shot or is there more to it?
Thank you all for replying, I really appreciate it.
I may be misunderstanding this matter (so correct me if I'm wrong), but if the ball is starting left due to a closed club-face only, shouldn't the divot still be pointing straight along the target line? Due to all my divots pointing left of the target line on my misses, I just assumed it was a path/plane issue. I generally hit pull hooks but occasionally hit pull slices as well.
That makes perfect sense, thank you.
Should I research the D-Plane more (if this is what you're referring to)?
I will try to get some more video (with face-on and down-the-line angles) uploaded tonight.
I agree in regards to the pivot. However, I don't know how to execute it correctly. I have tried the drills in "Alignment Golf" but it hasn't worked for me. This was my downfall whilst trying "Stack and Tilt" as well, as I was unable to slide my hips laterally.
I will look into it, thanks.
This has been my main effort (consciously swinging in-to-out) since I am unable to execute the pivot correctly. At times it feels like I am swinging out 45 degrees. However, would this be considered a compensation or is it a feeling that is making me perform the mechanics correctly?
I'll also look in this, thanks.
"Impact Fix" confuses me slightly. Is it just to create a feeling of impact before playing the shot or is there more to it?
Hard to say with just the divot could depend on ball position as well in respect to low point. you certainly can research d-plane and trackman too . . . . but just think of the face angle magnet thingie . . . the ball is generally going to start where that thing is pointing. So if your balls are starting left it's because the face is looking over there . . . could be due to it just plain being looking there or because it's rotating too fast.
Mike says you are over . . . . not sure how you can tell that from face on . . . . but you could be a reckon. Put the DTL up. You do some nice stuff.
Pivot: You're pulling down with your arms and shoulders and then you start your hip turn. You will always come over the top with that combination. You have two choices. Stop pivoting or stop pulling with your arms and shoulders.
Startdown Waggles are the best drill for the over the top problem to my mind. The best video on them is in the Premium Address Routine Video with Ted Fort. It'll cost you about 20 bucks but is well worth it. On the range I do two of them for every pull shot and then fire one off quickly without any added thinking. Those things work.
Here is a great photo of Hogan employing a Hip Slide with a Delayed Hip Turn. Notice how his left hip has slid over to above the outside of his left foot.
Mike says you are over . . . . not sure how you can tell that from face on . . . . but you could be a reckon. Put the DTL up. You do some nice stuff.
Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
P.S. Watch out for the Canadian - he's dangerous!
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Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
You know whats really dangerous is the fact that we're all on this one thread together.........posting our top secret stuff. Shut er down Bagger, before Wikileaks publishes these posts and the future of golf is altered forever.
Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
P.S. Watch out for the Canadian - he's dangerous!
Just saw it . . . . .
This would be my analysis . . .
His downswing is slightly over his backswing handpath . . . no biggie . . . he may be over just a lil' bit . . . but to me the fix is . . .
MORE HIP TURN . . . HAND PATH NEEDS TO BE DEEPER . . . THEN HE CAN SWING HIS HANDS OVER THE BACKSTROKE HANDPATH BUT NOT BE "OVER THE TOP". LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE SWING. ALIGNMENTS ARE NICE IN THE POWER PACKAGE AND THE CLUBFACE LINES UP NICE WITH THE LEFT ARM. Turn the hips more feel like the hands never come up because you already know how to swing them up. If you fix the backstroke the down stroke will fix itself. Where your hands are at the top if you turn at all they are going to get pulled out and over. But you only get them over the backstroke handpath slightly which is really good. So if you get them deeper you can make the same move and still stay on the original planeline/angle. You ain't no over the top wiper . . . you just need to fix your backstroke and you're GOLDEN.
Here are two "extreme" examples . . . you're obviously not as "up" as Furyk . . . but this will give you an illustration. Note from where Furyk is at the top if he "spins" or turns and drags his hands out . . . you'd have never heard of him. He has to swing his arms down SUPER FAST (release #4 the fastest) so he doesn't come over.
On the other hand Mr. Hogan is much more "deep" . . he does swing his hands over his backstroke handpath but he is so deep that he doesn't end up "over" he ends up right on plane.
A couple of other things to notice are the differences in the knee bend (allowing the hips to turn). Hogan has MUCH MORE hip turn and the right knee has straightened where Furyk hasn't straightened much at all.
As far as your "startdown" . . . looked pretty nice to me . . . you just need a different place to "startdown" from . . . turn your hips on the b.s. and feel like your arms never get above your belt . . . film it and see what it looks like.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 07-27-2010 at 09:25 AM.
His downswing is slightly over his backswing handpath . . . no biggie . . . he may be over just a lil' bit . . . but to me the fix is . . .
MORE HIP TURN . . . HAND PATH NEEDS TO BE DEEPER . . . THEN HE CAN SWING HIS HANDS OVER THE BACKSTROKE HANDPATH BUT NOT BE "OVER THE TOP". LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE SWING. ALIGNMENTS ARE NICE IN THE POWER PACKAGE AND THE CLUBFACE LINES UP NICE WITH THE LEFT ARM. Turn the hips more feel like the hands never come up because you already know how to swing them up. If you fix the backstroke the down stroke will fix itself. Where your hands are at the top if you turn at all they are going to get pulled out and over. But you only get them over the backstroke handpath slightly which is really good. So if you get them deeper you can make the same move and still stay on the original planeline/angle. You ain't no over the top wiper . . . you just need to fix your backstroke and you're GOLDEN.
Here are two "extreme" examples . . . you're obviously not as "up" as Furyk . . . but this will give you an illustration. Note from where Furyk is at the top if he "spins" or turns and drags his hands out . . . you'd have never heard of him. He has to swing his arms down SUPER FAST (release #4 the fastest) so he doesn't come over.
On the other hand Mr. Hogan is much more "deep" . . he does swing his hands over his backstroke handpath but he is so deep that he doesn't end up "over" he ends up right on plane.
A couple of other things to notice are the differences in the knee bend (allowing the hips to turn). Hogan has MUCH MORE hip turn and the right knee has straightened where Furyk hasn't straightened much at all.
As far as your "startdown" . . . looked pretty nice to me . . . you just need a different place to "startdown" from . . . turn your hips on the b.s. and feel like your arms never get above your belt . . . film it and see what it looks like.
Currently this is what I am working on. Hands deeper so the swing can get on a flatter plane and the work over back on plane. I go up and then under the plane before rotating, though I have plenty of rotation in my swing. Its not an easy thing to do, come over the top consciously but I got get back to the plane and not under it.
The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
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