[no_mind_golfer]

Thank you for the kind words Coop. There was a time when that forum was open to all ideas but not anymore. When they went to "rev. 3" or what ever it is, apparently they closed the door to all but the owner's personally espoused beliefs. This I knew (or at least suspected) but I spoke up anyway and for that I take personal responsibility. I try not to let any of this get personal but when the ad homenim starts flowing... I'm human.

Fact is some of these guys (especially those starting the arguments) are simply marketing. They are promoting what ever snake oil it is they think might get them noticed, invited to speak, write for a periodical or perhaps even just con the next client into signing up for lessons (or measurements). To them its "just business" or as one says, "good fun" which is too bad for everyone.

"Golfswings are kinetic chains but "kinetic chains" are merely descriptions of types of movement and/or sequencing of movements within a given activity. I don't think "kinetic chains" describe power generation or power enhancement."

Exactly! We're 100% in agreement. Your 4th paragraph below is spot on in my opinion.

Lastly Coop I also think there is much work yet to be done in understanding the bio-mechanics of the golf-swing and it is people like you that will get it done. (You are the author of that highly regarded book are you not... well done!)

Hey NM, I think you are the guy who told someone on another forum not to lie about moving objects on car dashboards to an English major golf pro who was obviously quite confused and leery about the professional advice and information to "use your pivot to snap your Kinetic Chain, and to assist your arms, hands, and club with creating the proper D plane for the selected shot. Everything else is show biz." They deleted all your posts and maybe some other poster's posts as well, so I'm not sure it was you. Thanks for sticking up for me if it was indeed you.

Anyway, my posts to that site haven't been deleted and since the time you were wiped out, I've continued to post there to implore anyone to explain to me in the Queen's English what the hell a "kinetic chain snap" is and how you can use your "pivot" to do it. Well I haven't gotten any good answers except that I am wrong to even cast a doubt in the direction of pivot induced kinetic chain snapping since some PHD clearly posted and explained a diagram of 16 or 8 piece linked chains to show that kinetic chain snapping is not only possible but likely necessary to generate the adequate or "missing?" horsepower that Cochran and Stobbs struggled to substantiate in order for good golfers to hit balls as far as they do..

I have been studying biomechanical research concerning the golfswing for many years and I've yet to uncover solid evidence to support the idea that power in good golf swings is generated by rotational movements of the pelvis and spine. Of course these rotations are necessary to create good backswings, good transitions, and good downswing posturings to strike the ball well, but I've never heard of these rotations (especially hip/pelvic rotations) as being able to generate or store significant power for golf. In fact I'm struggling to find any credible biomechanical literature wherein twisting, or coiling, or winding up, or pivoting of the pelvis and torso are used to describe dominant power generation in any powerful forms of human locomotion.

The credible research that I have studied strongly suggests that the difficult to describe lateral slide and resultant weight pressure shift and slight pivot of the hip girdle toward the target and onto the left leg is responsible for generating the real power for good golf swings. The research always describes this lateral pelvic shift/slight rotation as occurring BEFORE the completion of the backswing, and the research generally claims that this movement serves two critical functions in good golf swings: First, it is opposed by the grounded left foot and this opposition promotes subsequent rotation of the pelvis to the left about and above the left femoral head, which allows the pelvic girdle to rotate and face the target by the end of the swing. Second, it serves to pre-stretch principle upper extremity adductors (primarily pectoralis major and latissimus dorsi) before golfers initiate the downswing by contracting those muscles. More recent research shows that this PRE-DOWNSWING lateral weight pressure shift and slight leftward rotation of the pelvic girdle likely pre-stretches the right external oblique muscle as well, which will subsequently contract and initiate torso rotation to the left side on the downswing. It is the stretching and subsequent contraction of these muscles that enhance or harness the power created by the initial PRE-DOWNSWING lateral shift and slight rotation of the pelvis. I'd like to throw in that I hope most golfers have effectively hinged their right forearm about its elbow and both hands about their wrists, thus pre-stretching the right triceps and both sets of appropriate forearm muscles to contract on the downswing to further and dramatically enhance or harness the power generated by the initial PRE-DOWNSWING lateral shift and slight rotation of the pelvis.

I interpret from your posts that you basically espouse the validity of the research that I have studied. None of this research describes COAM or pivot induced kinetic chain snapping as enhancing, harnessing or "overpowering?" power generation. Golfswings are kinetic chains but "kinetic chains" are merely descriptions of types of movement and/or sequencing of movements within a given activity. I don't think "kinetic chains" describe power generation or power enhancement.

I think a lot of good people have been convinced that the lateral pelvic shift/rotation thing STARTS the downswing instead of PRECEDES it. If measurements are taken of a PRECEDING THE DOWNSWING MOTION as being a START OF THE DOWNSWING motion, then those measurements will likely be compared to a backswing that hasn't ended yet - and huge brain snaps will occur in the wrong direction as a result.

By the way, Tiger is the best at slowing and stopping his pivot and arms after he starts the downswing, especially when he hears a camera click, but alas, the club never hits the ball because it stopped too!

NM, thanks for sticking to your guns. I don't want to write any more posts for a long time. If anyone can be right concerning this subject, I firmly believe that it is you. Don't let it go to your head though!