[12 piece bucket]

12PB

I applaud your persistence in asking probing questions. Getting to the nitty-gritty details can sometimes be very instructive.

You seem to be implying that I am capable of good hula hula flexibility in my backswing.

That's not true. Consider the facts.

Look at Anthony Kim's torso rotation in the backswing. Note that his torso has an even rightwards slope. That is frequently seen in good golfers and it is due to the even spread of rotation over the entire thoracic spine and upper lumbar spine. Each of AK's thoracic and upper lumbar vertebra are capable of about 2-6 degrees of rotational movement. That allows him to spread the rotational load (difference between the degree of thoracic and pelvic rotation) over 12 thoracic vertebra and about 3-4 lumbar vertebra. So, if AK rotates his pelvis 45 degrees and his upper torso 105 degrees, then the 60 degrees of rotational difference can be roughly evenly spread over those 15+ vertebra.

I have a very inflexible lumbar and lower thoracic spine which is incapable of any rotation. The only part of my spine that can rotate is my mid-upper thoracic spine. Note that I rotate my pelvis about 50 degrees and my upper torso only about 70+ degrees. That means that I only have 20+ degrees of upper torso rotation. Also, note where the rotation occurs. It only occurs at the level of my mid-upper thorax level. That causes me to have a slight reverse pivot as I try to torque my upper torso against the resistance of a more restricted lower body turn. Also, if you look carefully, I don't really rotate perpendicularly around my spine in the backswing - I tend to lift up in the late backswing as I pull my right shoulder back. You can see that I can get my right shoulder more targetwards than I can get my left shoulder anti-targetwards, and that is part of my lifting maneuver.

So, I do not exhibit good hula hula flexibility in the backswing. I can torque my upper torso by about 20-30 degrees because my lower torso is grounded through my "fixed" right knee and my feet.

Now consider the downswing. I exhibit far less "apparent" hula hula flexibility in the downswing because my upper torso is ungrounded and free-floating. Therefore, when I torque my pelvis when using an active pivot action, my upper torso (which is free-floating) reacts immediately and also rotates. I am not capable of generating any dynamic X-factor (increased torso-pelvic separation) at the start of the downswing. I have learnt how to deal with this limitation by performing a compensatory action. Knowing that my right shoulder is going to turn immediately when I start my pelvic shift-rotation move, I immediately actively drive my right shoulder downplane even though I haven't yet developed any secondary axis tilt. That means that my shoulders are not turning perpendicularly around my spine. I can do it - but is doesn't feel comfortable. Also, that right shoulder downwards thrust downplane at the very start of the downswing can cause a disruption of my kinetic sequencing, which is not a good thing. That's why I do better with a reactive pivot action. I can throw my hands down-and-out on the plane before my torso reacts, and I am better able to generate a more synchronised, smoother swing action using this type of pivot action.

Obviously, a golfer cannot drive the ball as far using a reactive pivot action swing than a pivot action swing. How much loss in distance do you think will occur when using an arm swing versus an active pivot-driven swing in a good golfer?

Jeff.

Jeff . . . . I don't think you're talking about Mr. Kelley's Hula Hula . . . let's define terms first . . . . then you can tell me whether you can do Hula Hula or not . . . .

7-14 HIP TURN The Hip Turn as a Stroke Component is strictly the product of the Knee Bend and the Waist Bend. Not otherwise could the weight be shifted and the Shoulder Turn Axis be tilted without moving the Head. A Hula Hula flexibility allows the Hips and Shoulders to be independent but coordinate and so avoid Right Elbow – and – Hip interference and its “Roundhousing” Throwaway (4-D-0) during the Start Down – the Delivery Line ROLL PREPARATION (12-3-22).

Except for its being, in itself, the Weight Shift, the Hip Turn is a motion permitting – rather than causing – the other effects, actions and motions of the Pivot. Weight Shift is strictly a HIP MOTION. Substituting a Head Motion and/or Knee Motion will make Swaying inevitable.

The Hip Turn can be used to control or modify Hip Action Variations and prevent Zone #1 (9-1) exaggerations. See 2-N and 7-16.

Can you push your hips forward with out having your head move forward? If not maybe you need to build a stroke that will comply to those limitations. There are plenty of patterns that are very viable. I would start with Circle Delivery as it doesn't require Axis Tilt.

To your point of reactive pivot vs. active pivot . . . depends . . . . I think speed can certainly be a factor but how many MPH do you think you are going to give up? It was Mr. Kelley's assertion that Zone 2 is the power zone. Based on what you have put up we can debate your Hula Hula acumen but I don't think we can debate whether or not you have arms .

So I would say that yes the pivot can certainly ramp up speed but if you are going to believe Mr. K the real speed comes from the power package and #2 is the velocity accumulator. Soooooo . . . you know this anyway . . . .

I'd say the ball "perfers" being struck solid and square to a bunch of speed that has fleeting alignments. Comparing yourself to Anthony Kim is severe. Kinda like Brad Pitt trying to smoke me in a wing eating contest. Not many people are going to be able to generate the kind of speed he does.

So the ball knows speed . . .but also knows face and path and solid contact . . . I'd say if you can't have some kind of mutant level pivot than you better dang sure figure out a way to pivot to maximize hitting the ball solid which is basically controlling low point. So you may not have a Ferrari pivot but you can SWING or DRIVE your arm/arms. Solid and a matching face/path with reasonable speed trumps just pure speed.

So the answer to your question is . . . sorta, maybe, yes, no.

But I still submit that you have shifted your hips in the backstroke and your axis is tilted to the right . . . . .