[Daryl]

Hey Jerry

Basically assuming you are employing a TSP, the Right Shoulders so called "right" Plane Angle will be the one that most closely approaches the Elbow Plane, assuming you have an Elbow Plane to get to.

Let me explain, all Alignments are derived from Impact Alignments! So to answer your question properly I must go back to Fix. You must adjust you machine at Impact Fix properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So many of us TGM'rs dont do this and we MUST. Get the Right Arm on Plane with the desired amount of shaft lean and clubface angle for the shot at hand. Then get the Left Wrist on the club and Level. This will require some adjustment to Knee Bend, Waist Bend, Head Position etc. These are the key Machine Adjustments that if not done at Fix or done dynamically during the motion will destroy your Impact Alignments!!!!!! Far better to do them at Fix than dynamically.

From there you have choices in regard to which TSP angle you are using assuming you are even using a TSP. But as I mentioned above Homers definition of a "Standard" Shoulder Turn is Flat going back and On Plane going down. But all of the TSP angles are On Plane by definition. Some are higher than others. Homer preferred an Angle that more closely approached the Elbow Plane or Shaft Plane.

I know the wording makes it all so confusing. Basically, ideally, get your Machine adjusted properly at Fix, then take your Right Shoulder back as Flat to the ground as is comfortable. If you get your Pressure Points on this same Plane Angle you are on a TSP! A Flat one at that. You are now all systems go to use your Right Shoulder to take the Pressure Points and the Power Package down this TSP angle which you have pre selected. Axis Tilt via Hip Action prior to Startdown will further tilt the Right Shoulder to a Plane Angle lower than your Flat back Shoulder Turn took it to. This gets you even closer to the Elbow Plane. That is the ideal if there is one. Although Homer would never talk in such terms there being so many usable patterns. Most every golfer comes in on a Higher Plane, especially the over the top types who Startdown with their Arms instead of their Right Shoulder and cross line it, outside to in.

The Pivot has to lead in Startdown but it tends to get in the way of the Right Elbow and redirect the Power Package OUT and over the Plane. Homers genius allowed him to identify this problem and its solution. Research Cleared Right Hip and Axis Tilt in connection with the topic at hand, the TSP and TGM opens up like the readable book it often isnt. This is what I see in Yoda's swing, Hogan's swing.

Dear OB1,

Obviously, you mis-perceive this matter. You've been hanging with the Bucket too long and the grease has finally gone to your brain.

Allow my Vapid response to help clear things up.

First and Foremost is your misconception about the TSP. It's not a fixed Plane. Its angle varies by Club Length. The Shorter the Club Length, the Steeper the Angle.

OB1: "OK daryl you jerk, then if the TSP angle is different for each club, then what does a Flat Shoulder turn mean?"

Daryl: It simply means any angle flatter than a Rotated shoulder turn.

OB1: "OK daryl, smarty pants, then how does one know how flat to turn your shoulders for any specific club length?"

Daryl: Each Clubs Length changes the angle of the Right Forearm at Address. Then, using Extensor Action Takeaway, your Right Shoulder will be directed to the appropriate height and Location per that angle (Magic of the Right Forearm). Longer Clubs will result in a "Lower Right Shoulder" and Shorter Clubs will raise the Right Shoulder Higher.

So, given a short enough shaft, its possible for a Properly applied Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn to direct the Right Shoulder to the Same Location as a Rotated Shoulder Turn. But it's still called a TSP if it arrive On Plane by Geometrically aligned forces and not a simple 90 degree shoulder-spine rotation.

Isn't it obvious to everyone that while using the Elbow Plane, that one cannot have an On-Plane Downstroke Shoulder Turn? EVER. Someone let 'Bucket' know.