Hand speed pace and release . . . oh yeah golf stroke golf stroke . . . stroke . . . sorry! Yeah back to the program
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Sorry dude, but I just couldn't set myself up for that one...
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
I think Pace is definitely more of a hand speed thang than surface speed thang. If because we have a law of the fail and we comply with it . . . our handzeez travel a certain speed and our clubhead hopefully travels at a greater speed for the long ball anyhow . . . but since we love the flail our hands and club travel at the same RPM . . .but the SURFACE SPEED of business end of the club (the head) is moving faster than our handzeez . . . this is a result of what?
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No doubt about that.
But the answer is the head moves faster because during the uncocking the head is catching up to the hand RPM for it's in line condition. He doesn't define surface speed until #3 kicks in.
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
And for straight line versus circle path . . . picture Tom I-kicked-McCord'sazz-out-of-Augusta Watson with his circle path and its pace versus Big Easy with his pace and his small pulley . . . who do you reckon feels more Lag Pressure? Which'un requires more hand speed to generate an equal amount of Clubhead (surface ) speed?
Scream back at me.
Well that ones pretty straight forward because I resembled ole Tom for a while, but suffice to say as the slower hands hit the small pulley, they feel lag pressure more instanteously than the faster hands going around the big pulley. I gotta believe that for each, LAG PRESSURE THROUGH IMPACT IS THE SAME for the same pace...I mean...SURFACE SPEED .
That's about the best I can do to scream.
Oh...and I could be really wrong about all of this cause after all, I'm just a big ole loud mouth Texas boy.
Have a poke chop break and keep it goin, theres a bunch more...
I gotta break to turn a big ole rib eye smoke'in on the grill.
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1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Sorry dude, but I just couldn't set myself up for that one...
No doubt about that.
But the answer is the head moves faster because during the uncocking the head is catching up to the hand RPM for it's in line condition. He doesn't define surface speed until #3 kicks in.
Well that ones pretty straight forward because I resembled ole Tom for a while, but suffice to say as the slower hands hit the small pulley, they feel lag pressure more instanteously than the faster hands going around the big pulley. I gotta believe that for each, LAG PRESSURE THROUGH IMPACT IS THE SAME for the same pace...I mean...SURFACE SPEED .
That's about the best I can do to scream.
Oh...and I could be really wrong about all of this cause after all, I'm just a big ole loud mouth Texas boy.
Keep it go'in though, theres a bunch more...
Lets assume both have the same clubhead speed . .. who has more hand speed . . . Tom or EZ?
"With the Endless Belt Effect, The Belt (Hands) and the Clubhead have the RPM but the Surface factor sets in and gives the Clubhead greater MPH - in reverse proportion to the size of the Pulley (the smaller, the faster). That is, raised Hand Position - reducing the Accumulator #3 Travel -plus Trigger Delay. Conversely - a larger Pulley (lowered Hands) requires a higher Handspeed and an earlier Trigger."
The question I have is, "If someone has high hand speed are they limited to using only a big pulley?"
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Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
The question I have is, "If someone has high hand speed are they limited to using only a big pulley?"
My guess is it depends on if they can generate enough pivot lag to use fast hands and a big pulley without overacceleration. Sounds about as risky as 4 barrels to me.
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"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
My guess is it depends on if they can generate enough pivot lag to use fast hands and a big pulley without overacceleration. Sounds about as risky as 4 barrels to me.
Yes, flirting with overacceleration is dangerous.
What if someone lessens #3 accumulator angle, takes a straight line delivery path, max trigger delay and snap release with fast hands?
Pretty cool I think.
Bucket -
I know you have me on "ignore" but I gotta get off this thread cause its time to go back to my little wiring closet. Sorry for messing up things up in the middle of your Black Panther party.
Bagger Gump
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1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
uhmm..... I like to put it this way.. what i know.. may be wrong but .. I'll bite.
Club head speed is created by
1) the maximum accumulator you can create ( Higher distance for acceleration) + the Maximum trigger delay you can make which translate to higher Rate of Release = SPEED . a combination of these = SPEED, Thus hand speed is = Strength to hold on + how fast your muscle can follow up with the release, thus grip, forearm strength and speed are very important. This part can be Very very fast and violent irregardless of tempo.
2) Rhythm is the RPM that need to be maintain ( body and arm at the pulley part of endless belt)and Tempo is speed . but a large pulley speed Travel Fast. Does it matter? yes but not as huge as no.1 i would say less important. The larger the PULLEY.. The LESS efficient as Homer explains... Larger Pulley require Higher Hand speed to maintain rhythm( cause travel further). he say Require ... NEED.. and thus club head speed is inter-related with Point 1. Which mean you can use a BIG pulley and HIGH hand speed as in big pulley and the MPH not really fast.
so.. Hand speed .. 2 kinds...
1 Now strong and fast the educated hands and brain can hold on and follow up (maintain lag pressure) to a violent faster rate of release..
2 How fast the hand have to travel in a huge pulley to maintain RPM, which have a more "passive role" in a PIVOT transport or accumulator 4 case because of PIVOT transport.
The smaller the pulley, the slower the hands required to maintain rhythm, thus more efficient, the bigger the pulley the more acceleration can be created.Diminishing returns.....
But the way I think is,, the less effort to create higher output a person can create, the better and more efficient he is, thus relying on faster rate of release is more reproducible and less taxing on the body( fatigue) thus much better mechanics and powerful.
Thus... its my bias opinion.. a turned shoulder, 3/4 barrel swing , with a cupped left wrist at the end,with a Flip release and a long back swing can go the furthest with least effort.. not neccessary the most repeatable..
I'm going crazy...
must resist temptation to stop reading bucket's post ...
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Latest incubator: Finally appreciate why Hogan wrote 19 pages on GRIP. I bet he could write another 40 pages.
The question I have is, "If someone has high hand speed are they limited to using only a big pulley?"
Perhaps, but only by the club specs they are using. If you have high hand speed, it may prove helpful to get heavier clubs/shafts so that you can keep in rhythm with your pace!
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Mr Kelley defines "Pace" as The surface speed of the orbiting Clubhead - as differentiated from Rhythm.
He urges us (6-P-0) to never make a shot BUT to make a ([non-automatic] release) "Motion".
Quote:
"Your Motionmust include its Pace, that is hand speed (RPM) strong, consistent and RHYTHMIC".
So, a non-automatic release procedure is invoked in order to produce "Pace" - a steady and constant hand speed, augmented by Trigger Delay to produce the desired effect.
Therefore, there is no connection between "Pace" and "Rhythm" unless a conscious decision is made to keep both lever assemblies at the same RPM - in which event Pace is sacrificed in the interest of maintaining Rhythm.
Mr Kelley defines "Pace" as The surface speed of the orbiting Clubhead - as differentiated from Rhythm.
He urges us (6-P-0) to never make a shot BUT to make a ([non-automatic] release) "Motion".
So, a non-automatic release procedure is invoked in order to produce "Pace" - a steady and constant hand speed, augmented by Trigger Delay to produce the desired effect.
Therefore, there is no connection between "Pace" and "Rhythm" unless a conscious decision is made to keep both lever assemblies at the same RPM - in which event Pace is sacrificed in the interest of maintaining Rhythm.
I think there is a GINORMOUS connection between Pace and Rhythm. Handspeed, fast or slow, relative to clubhead speed is exponentially slower. The surface speed is a result of an extention of the Primary Lever Assembly . . . thereby increasing from a small radius (cocked) to a large radius (uncocking). This increase in radius from the extention of the lever assembly results major velocity . . . but ideally not to the detriment of Rhythm with the Left Arm Flying Wedge and its Flat Left Wrist in tact . . . so surface speed is increasing dramatically but the RPM is the same . . . Law of the Flail.
So the hands can move slow (Pace) but the clubhead can move real fast (surface speed).
) speed?
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but I gotta get off this thread cause its time to go back to my little wiring closet. Sorry for messing up things up in the middle of your Black Panther party.
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Hybrid Mode
