I don’t think so.
Greater delay results in greater Clubhead velocity and downward force. This needs compensation. Reduced #3 Accumulator Angle for shorter Swivel time. The feel of the Swivel is magnified by the downward force and Roll is accentuated because of ratio of the “feel” of the longer and delayed Downstroke. For me, it feels like I’m pounding the Ball into the ground with Roll. Huge thump. My arms are almost parallel to the ground before I finish swivel. Ball flight soars upward though. Nice to watch but guaranteed to take an extra ten yards off into the wind.
I don’t think so.
Greater delay results in greater Clubhead velocity and downward force. This needs compensation. Reduced #3 Accumulator Angle for shorter Swivel time. The feel of the Swivel is magnified by the downward force and Roll is accentuated because of ratio of the “feel” of the longer and delayed Downstroke. For me, it feels like I’m pounding the Ball into the ground with Roll. Huge thump. My arms are almost parallel to the ground before I finish swivel. Ball flight soars upward though. Nice to watch but guaranteed to take an extra ten yards off into the wind.
Definitely becomes "Simultaneous" with Max Trigger Delay . . . think about it . . . if you are delaying the Uncocking and the Rolling well into the Downstroke these release motions HAVE TO happen in a more "simultaneous" fashion to be able to hit the ball meeting the selected Fix Alignments . . . that is why Max Trigger Delay isn't necessarily your friend.
Think of Sergio or Hogan vs. a Tom Watson . . . with Sergio the amount of delay requires that the Accumulators get in line QUICKLY Simultaneously almost instantly . . . that would be both #2 and #3 . . . if Sergio held it deep and just did UNCOCKING and no roll the ball goes everywhere . . . .that is why you may want to think about 10-2-D grips with Max Trigger Swings . . . with that grip type you CAN'T Roll . . . Just Uncock.
Definitely becomes "Simultaneous" with Max Trigger Delay . . . think about it . . . if you are delaying the Uncocking and the Rolling well into the Downstroke these release motions HAVE TO happen in a more "simultaneous" fashion to be able to hit the ball meeting the selected Fix Alignments . . . that is why Max Trigger Delay isn't necessarily your friend.
Think of Sergio or Hogan vs. a Tom Watson . . . with Sergio the amount of delay requires that the Accumulators get in line QUICKLY Simultaneously almost instantly . . . that would be both #2 and #3 . . . if Sergio held it deep and just did UNCOCKING and no roll the ball goes everywhere . . . .that is why you may want to think about 10-2-D grips with Max Trigger Swings . . . with that grip type you CAN'T Roll . . . Just Uncock.
I'm learning something here guys... thanks for the dialogue.
Off topic perhaps Bucket, but did Freddy Couples use 10-2-D? I could watch that dude hit balls all day..... such a unique fluid motion. Saw him in a WWOG match the other day and tried to figure out what grip he uses to be compatible with the rest of his action.
I'm learning something here guys... thanks for the dialogue.
Off topic perhaps Bucket, but did Freddy Couples use 10-2-D? I could watch that dude hit balls all day..... such a unique fluid motion. Saw him in a WWOG match the other day and tried to figure out what grip he uses to be compatible with the rest of his action.
CG
ABSOLUTELY! AND . . . he is a TRUE Swinger . . . so check out some Couples' pics notice how he doesn't really "Swivel" back Up-Plane too. He BENDS Up Plane.
There are plenty of strong grip (10-2-D) players with oooodlez of Trigger Delay . . . see SwingVisions on Youtube of Boo and Sergio. The have "late" Swivel . .. Zach Johnson is the king of late swivel . . . maybe even NO swivel.
Another interesting comparison is to look at how close to the ground the clubhead is when Zach's hands are at his right thigh on the Downstroke vs. Boo or Sergio . . . you tell me who can hit it farther???
If you can see some footage of Freddy he's more "bendy" . . . so the club "re-planes" quicker but it's due to bending and recocking rather than ROLLING and recocking.
Definitely becomes "Simultaneous" with Max Trigger Delay . . . think about it . . . if you are delaying the Uncocking and the Rolling well into the Downstroke these release motions HAVE TO happen in a more "simultaneous" fashion to be able to hit the ball meeting the selected Fix Alignments . . . that is why Max Trigger Delay isn't necessarily your friend.
Think of Sergio or Hogan vs. a Tom Watson . . . with Sergio the amount of delay requires that the Accumulators get in line QUICKLY Simultaneously almost instantly . . . that would be both #2 and #3 . . . if Sergio held it deep and just did UNCOCKING and no roll the ball goes everywhere . . . .that is why you may want to think about 10-2-D grips with Max Trigger Swings . . . with that grip type you CAN'T Roll . . . Just Uncock.
“More Simultaneous”?? No. Less Sequenced does not equal more Simultaneous. Apples and Oranges. They are completely and Totally different motions.
More important is that the Right Wrist does not Cock or Uncock. The Right Wrist performs the same motion regardless of when and where and how fast it occurs. The Right Wrist is Bending as the Left Wrist Swivels. The Right Wrist moves from almost Flat before impact to Bent during impact. That motion occurs after the Left Wrist Uncocks (to Level). Uncock, then Roll. Sequence.
Please keep in mind that the Left Wrist Uncocks as the Right Arm straightens for both Hitters and Swingers. You are delaying the Right Arm from Straightening, but not from Straightening.
10-2-D Grips are for Swingers using Angled Hinging or Horizontal Hinging if you want to position the ball opposite your Right Foot.
“More Simultaneous”?? No. Less Sequenced does not equal more Simultaneous. Apples and Oranges. They are completely and Totally different motions.
More important is that the Right Wrist does not Cock or Uncock.
10-2-D Grips are for Swingers using Angled Hinging or Horizontal Hinging if you want to position the ball opposite your Right Foot.
Woo! We're debatin'!
I still stand by my post that with Maximum Trigger Delay ALL RELEASES approach Simultaneous . . . It has to work that way . . . apples peaches punkin' pie . . .
I was refering to the Left Wrist bending and cocking not the Right Wrist . . .
Per 10-2-G . . .
. A bit of Left Wrist Turn properly becomes exactly the same amount of Double Wristcock to keep the Clubshaft On Plane and to maintain Impact Wrist Position. Except with a “True” Swing (6-B-3-0) where Centrifugal Force will produce the “geometric” Flat Left Wrist when there is actually a “visual” Bent Left Wrist. That is, the Clubshaft and the Left Arm are in a straight line per 6-B-3-0 and 2-K regardless of the Left Wrist Position. These procedures may be either “Weak” or “Strong” but either or both Wrist are Double Cocked per 10-18-B.
Hence the Freddie Couples reference . . . he satisfies the conditions of the Law of the Flail . . . but his Left Wrist be Bendin' like a comma.
As for Strong Grips and Horizontal Hinging . . . I don't think that has anything to do with ball position . . . you CAN Horizontal Hinge with a 10-2-D (or any grip type for that matter) . .. IF you keep something VERTICAL to the Horizontal Plane . .. that's what Homer considered the advantage of the 10-2-B grip . . . you could SEE that it was vertical. Whereas with 10-2-B you have to have some other reference point.
If a max trigger delay sequenced release does occur in a sequence then it will certainly feel more simultaneous to your little old brain... but i guess it does not have to be simultaneous in reality...
Daryl, did you say that to swing (CF force, horizontal hinge) with strong single action grip and max trig delay....you need to have a slightly bent left wrist at release point if you want to keep straight plane line??
Thanks for clarifying - i have not had much time for TGM book work ...easily confused now!
If a max trigger delay sequenced release does occur in a sequence then it will certainly feel more simultaneous to your little old brain... but i guess it does not have to be simultaneous in reality...
Daryl, did you say that to swing (CF force, horizontal hinge) with strong single action grip and max trig delay....you need to have a slightly bent left wrist at release point if you want to keep straight plane line??
Thanks for clarifying - i have not had much time for TGM book work ...easily confused now!
Imagine how fast some of these cats on TV are moving . . . #2 and #3 are basically firing at the same time to get the clubface to square . . . Some have more circle path and maybe they don't. I mean people hammered Leadbetter for saying some of those dudes have to unbend the right wrist to release the club . . . I have know idea what he meant as far as if he thinks that's the way it REALLY works (that's an entirely different debate) . . BUT I guarantee you that some of those cats on tour probably FEEL like they unbend their right wrist so they can get the club back to the ball with all that delay and speed they generate. That's certainly not what you'd want to tell a classic whackandhack job . . .BUT you may have to say some junk like that to somebody on the other end of the spectrum to make it work.
So maybe it should be "THIS IS HOW IT WORKS" . . . but for you to make it work you have to FEEL like it does this.
so how does this dude get to the ball without having #2 and #3 fire at the same time that deep into the release . . .
Stop it about the 33 second mark (hands right thigh high) and compare it to Sergio above . . . there is 3 feet difference in those two club heads . . . hands are different . . . hip slides are different . . . axis tilts are different . . .
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 01-16-2008 at 05:47 PM.
"so how does this dude get to the ball without having #2 and #3 fire at the same time that deep into the release . . . "
Bucket, excellent observation. Pleae note that most of them cock their Right Wrist. They must Uncock it. The picture illustrates that the Clubhead is way out of position trailing too far behind. And I'm not talking about LAG. These guys have hand-eye coordination that's so amazing, that they can break all of the rules and still Win Millions of Dollars on Tour. They are gifted, and they work very hard to maintain that skill.
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