ExtensorMike - if he feels CF while hitting, he's actually right arm svinging??
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Yodeli is saying that he feels CF while hitting, does anyone have an explanation/TGM interpretation?
No he isn't right arm swinging. I don't open that can. No CF at the top- CF is a throw-out of the clubhead. You can start down like a swinger but that isn't CF. A hitters push will slow down a clubhead released by CF. Like wise a swinger can't 'push the club' after releasing it via CF.
ExtensorMike - if he feels CF while hitting, he's actually right arm svinging??
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Yodeli is saying that he feels CF while hitting, does anyone have an explanation/TGM interpretation?
This swinger feeling in PP4 while attempting to hit confused me a lot and I thought I was mixing.
Then, recently I read 2-M-4:
Homer says that "[Pivot Thrust is] supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed".
In this chapter, Homer doesn't say that the pivot is doing something different, Hitting or Swinging.
He just says that Pivot Thrust (one Action, Hitting or Swinging) is accelerating the loaded power package (the result of the Action when Hitting) or blasts the inert left arm (the result of the Action when Swinging).
Originally Posted by Thom
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Thom,
I think you put the finger on something:
Imagine your left arm and clubshaft as one straight and stiff unit attached to your left shoulder (my thought at impact fix).
Then, pick up the whole unit accross your chest using a hitter's takeaway.
Then, load ACC#4 and feel PP4 by turning your body to the target.
The left arm flying wedge (the "whole stiff unit") will follow and will be blast of the chest somewhere halfway down when ACC#4 starts to release.
Then ADD more power by driving the whole unit using right arm thrust.
You will agree that that way of considering the left arm+club as one unit is clearly not a swinging procedure!
However if you think of what is happening in step 4 above, the "whole stiff unit" initially accelerated by the pivot could kinda fell like CF until you activate the thrust of the right arm!!!
I am interested in Yodeli's commentary that a pivot action is necessary prior to hitting with the right arm (triceps activation actively extending the right elbow). I can envisage the downswing pivot action throwing the left arm off the chest wall with a very assertive (very active) right shoulder thrust maneuver, and I can also envisage a more gentle right shoulder thrust maneuver that simply moves the power package assembly downplane, and into a mid-downswing position where the right arm can start to actively power the downswing via a hitting action. Which of these two options is recommended for a hitter?
I am interested in Yodeli's commentary that a pivot action is necessary prior to hitting with the right arm (triceps activation actively extending the right elbow). I can envisage the downswing pivot action throwing the left arm off the chest wall with a very assertive (very active) right shoulder thrust maneuver, and I can also envisage a more gentle right shoulder thrust maneuver that simply moves the power package assembly downplane, and into a mid-downswing position where the right arm can start to actively power the downswing via a hitting action. Which of these two options is recommended for a hitter?
Jeff.
Now I'm lost. Was there doubt that a Hitter had no pivot? Certainly a hitter has a hip action and turn.
Second- CF is a throw-out. You can not feel CF because it is a clubface motion. The clubface seeks an inline condition, not the golfer's body
Check out the video I posted called "Hitters Row." Ted is hitting in the background and Lynn is swinging in the foreground. Check out the pivots.
Check out the video I posted called "Hitters Row." Ted is hitting in the background and Lynn is swinging in the foreground. Check out the pivots.
Yes, in my eye the pivot action at the start of the downstroke is the same: it loads the power package and starts the checkrein action for both strokes…
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Now I'm lost. Was there doubt that a Hitter had no pivot? Certainly a hitter has a hip action and turn.
6bmike,
I think Jeff among others have an incomplete picture on how to perform a complete hitting stroke. At last I was!
Why so? I think it relates to what we saw on videos: When Lynn describes the Hitting stroke, he puts a lot of emphasis on the right arm thrust as THE power source for Hitters and talk very little about the role of the pivot as an equally important source of power for the Hitter.
You are lucky enough to be close to the green man, so you have no fog in your mind, be for the fellow TGMers far away and only relying on the videos, this could be half the story we need to know about Hitting.
To me, there is a lack of information about chapter 2-M-4 related to the Hitting stroke on the videos: As a result, I pictured Hitting in my mind more of a 1-2-3 release of the accumulators (requiring to have the right arm of Mike Tyson!) with the body following the motion some way, instead of the proper 4-1-2-3 much more powerful release (and requiring a normal right arm!).
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Second- CF is a throw-out. You can not feel CF because it is a clubface motion. The clubface seeks an inline condition, not the golfer's body
Sure, but imagine that while performing a Hitting stroke, the clubhead detaches from the shaft halfway down in the downstroke (as if your club broke!).
Because the clubhead is moving in an arc (hitting or swinging!), you can be sure it is subject to CF and that the clubhead will go away in the tangent of the arc of the swing where it broke! For sure it will not spear the aiming point!
This is this kind of CF I am talking about.
I think that if you are Hitting, using a proper angled hinge action (and even with only ACC#1 power!) you can feel this resulting CF in the clubhead because physics dictates there is some!!!
I just discovered that using a lot of lag pressure in PP4 makes me more aware of this RESULTING CF occurring while Hitting…and I thought it was wrong!
I agree that I would have been wrong if I thought about Hitting and using CF instead of right arm thrust to provide power but I think we are not talking about the same CF here: One is propelling the clubhead (Swinging) while the other is a inevitable result of the angular motion and must not been regarded as wrong while hitting!
I am interested in Yodeli's commentary that a pivot action is necessary prior to hitting with the right arm (triceps activation actively extending the right elbow). I can envisage the downswing pivot action throwing the left arm off the chest wall with a very assertive (very active) right shoulder thrust maneuver, and I can also envisage a more gentle right shoulder thrust maneuver that simply moves the power package assembly downplane, and into a mid-downswing position where the right arm can start to actively power the downswing via a hitting action. Which of these two options is recommended for a hitter?
Jeff.
Jeff,
As I remember doing it some months ago, I think the two options you describe are both valid:
The first one being used on full shots and the other one (the gentle right shoulder thrust) for pitches and chips.
The feel and action stay the same (I remember it very clearly!) and you just are just varying the lag pressure in PP4 (0% (small chips - no pivot) to 100% (a 350 yards drive! )) to accomodate for the shot at hand.
But it is still an action of the pivot THEN the action of the right arm WHEN you feel ACC#4 starting to release.
Now I'm lost. Was there doubt that a Hitter had no pivot? Certainly a hitter has a hip action and turn.
Second- CF is a throw-out. You can not feel CF because it is a clubface motion. The clubface seeks an inline condition, not the golfer's body
Check out the video I posted called "Hitters Row." Ted is hitting in the background and Lynn is swinging in the foreground. Check out the pivots.
Mike
Thanks for your input. I obviously didn't understand how the hitter starts the hitting action when I posted that question. I have now found a video by LB in his section of the video gallery, which was produced in 2004. In that video, he states that the hip only moves to take up slack, and that the right shoulder is kept back and not thrust downplane, and that the right arm is actively thrust in a straight line towards the ball away from the right shoulder. I now understand the hitting action somewhat better. However, I still would like to better understand what activates power accumulator number 4 in a hitting action. In a swinging action, I imagine that the right shoulder thrust causes upper torso rotation therefore ensuring increased lag pressure at PP4 in the initial downswing, which is eventually released when the downswing pivot action abates. What happens regarding loading and release at the PP4 point in a hitter?
By the way, where can I find your video called "hitters row"?
I also don't understand your comment that "one cannot feel CF because it is a clubface motion". I thought that CF was a clubhead motion, and not a clubface motion. I also thought that a swinger should still feel lag pressure at PP3 during the CF action to avoid clubhead throwaway.
Jeff,
As I remember doing it some months ago, I think the two options you describe are both valid:
The first one being used on full shots and the other one (the gentle right shoulder thrust) for pitches and chips.
The feel and action stay the same (I remember it very clearly!) and you just are just varying the lag pressure in PP4 (0% (small chips - no pivot) to 100% (a 350 yards drive! )) to accomodate for the shot at hand.
But it is still an action of the pivot THEN the action of the right arm WHEN you feel ACC#4 starting to release.
Yodeli
Your description fits my previous understanding of hitting. However, after watching the LB hitting/swinging video in his video gallery, I am now led to understand that there is no pivot action (right shoulder downplane thrust) - neither gentle or assertive - in a hitters action.
Your description fits my previous understanding of hitting. However, after watching the LB hitting/swinging video in his video gallery, I am now led to understand that there is no pivot action (right shoulder downplane thrust) - neither gentle or assertive - in a hitters action.
Jeff.
Mmm...
in the video (at 00:55') Lynn says that for a Hitter, the right shoulder must not drop down (ie underplane) [EDITED, was "downplane"] but drive down the shoulder plane. It doesn't mean the shoulder must stay back or that there is no pivot action!
The shoulder is free to move if it moves down the shoulder plane!
Then the right arm thrusts against the right shoulder.
In fact, if you don't move your shoulder down plane (using the pivot I guess!), you will certainly run out of right arm and will be forced to throw away!
!
)) to accomodate for the shot at hand.
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