Great post Bucket a lot of good info.
How in the heck could VJ Singh practice with the glove under the #4 and still make decent contact?
In the Alignment Golf DVD Lynn and V.J. Trolio speak about this. VJ then puts a towel under his arm, swings through follow through with the towel intact. Moving to finish the #4 accumulator blasts off, and the towel falls to the ground. Lynn says that is the first time he has seen that drill done properly. Is that what you mean?
Great post Bucket a lot of good info.
How in the heck could VJ Singh practice with the glove under the #4 and still make decent contact?
I think actually that is a kinda misunderstood deal . . . .watch this swing vision . . . there's no question that he's releasing #4 . . . . he releases it as fast as anybody in the game really . . . watch anybody on tour with "high hands" at the top . . . . gotta release #4 fast basically due to the distance they are from the ball comparitively . . . Furyk . . . Sergio . . . really fast.
So you can probably stick that glove in there and still move your arm . . . .what you don't want to do is just spin into the glove and "pin" the left arm so it doesn't move. He's just trying to move his arms close to his body.
Here's me NOT releasing #4 fast enough . . . . note how much farther my hands are away from me . . . . causes me to have to lose #3 angle through the ball . . . . fleating clubface alignments . . . Result of an improper startdown . . . . shoulders spinning into the arm and throwing it out rather than downplane . . . . so the radius is disrupted.
When one thinks of the purpose of releasing PA#4 in a swinger's action, the purpose is to get the left arm moving at a certain speed in the downswing. If the left arm moves at a certain speed, and PA#2 and PA#3 release efficiently then one has a perfect swinger's action from a power perspective.
Now, consider the timing of the release of PA#4. If one has an assertive right shoulder thrust turn at the start of the downswing, with a rapid shoulder deceleration pattern, then the left arm will leave the chest wall at an early point in the downswing. That can be seen in that posted video of VJ Singh's swing.
By contrast, Hardy OPS golfers are encouraged to turn their torso very aggressively at the start of the downswing and to ABT (always be turning). They therefore do not have the upper torso deceleratory pattern seen in VJ Singh's swing, and therefore their left arm remains in contact with the chest wall for much longer during the downswing. However, they hit the ball very well because their left arm travels at an appropriate speed during the downswing, and they release their PA#2/3 well.
Here is link to an excellent Hardy OPS golfer - Jeff Ritter.
Here are series of capture images of his downswing, which demonstrate that his left arm-chest wall angle remains acute until very late in his downswing - due to his very active shoulder rotation. Note where his right shoulder is situated in image 3 and compare it to VJ Singh's swing. There is a huge difference.
I think that the time point of PA#4 release depends on the pivot motion pattern and different golfers have different PA#4 release patterns (eg. equivalent to a sweep, random, or late release of PA#2).
When one thinks of the purpose of releasing PA#4 in a swinger's action, the purpose is to get the left arm moving at a certain speed in the downswing. If the left arm moves at a certain speed, and PA#2 and PA#3 release efficiently then one has a perfect swinger's action from a power perspective.
Now, consider the timing of the release of PA#4. If one has an assertive right shoulder thrust turn at the start of the downswing, with a rapid shoulder deceleration pattern, then the left arm will leave the chest wall at an early point in the downswing. That can be seen in that posted video of VJ Singh's swing.
By contrast, Hardy OPS golfers are encouraged to turn their torso very aggressively at the start of the downswing and to ABT (always be turning). They therefore do not have the upper torso deceleratory pattern seen in VJ Singh's swing, and therefore their left arm remains in contact with the chest wall for much longer during the downswing. However, they hit the ball very well because their left arm travels at an appropriate speed during the downswing, and they release their PA#2/3 well.
Here is link to an excellent Hardy OPS golfer - Jeff Ritter.
Here are series of capture images of his downswing, which demonstrate that his left arm-chest wall angle remains acute until very late in his downswing - due to his very active shoulder rotation. Note where his right shoulder is situated in image 3 and compare it to VJ Singh's swing. There is a huge difference.
I think that the time point of PA#4 release depends on the pivot motion pattern and different golfers have different PA#4 release patterns (eg. equivalent to a sweep, random, or late release of PA#2).
Jeff.
Jeff . . . . This is a TOTALLY different deal for VJ and this cat. Just simply look at where their hands are respectively at the top . . . this OPS dude is no question releasing number 4 too . .. . you can see it how the right shoulder hasn't moved down much but the left arm has . . . . here's a down the line . . . . his #4 has to move faster for the club to stay on plane due to where his hands are . . . his hands basically match at the top and the finish.
I'd say #4 has more to do with Plane than Pivot . . . both must comply to the selected plane and where the hands are in-space inorder to keep them there. VJ has to cover WAY more distance to keep his hands in enough rather than them flying out over the plane. And there's more "out" in the other dudes deal from the top vs. VJ who has more "down" to cover.
Release of acc.4 is about left arm above nipple line going to below nipple line rather than keeping something under left armpit.
Look at Hogan (the model for Hardy 1PS as I understand it):
Quite alot of room in between chest and left arm.
Seperate issue...no real attempt to threadjack....Looking at Jeff Ritter in photo 3 - he has rotated the clubface off the inclined plane (ie. sweetspot plane seperate from shaft plane ...unlike at top/end) and still appears to have quite alot of wristcock....he has a FLW from top ...and is onplane. Do people think that he is releasing 2+3 simultaneously....releasing 3 before 2....or something else....if he "cupped" his left wrist at top and start down...what would happen?...
Release of acc.4 is about left arm above nipple line going to below nipple line rather than keeping something under left armpit.
Look at Hogan (the model for Hardy 1PS as I understand it):
Quite alot of room in between chest and left arm.
Seperate issue...no real attempt to threadjack....Looking at Jeff Ritter in photo 3 - he has rotated the clubface off the inclined plane (ie. sweetspot plane seperate from shaft plane ...unlike at top/end) and still appears to have quite alot of wristcock....he has a FLW from top ...and is onplane. Do people think that he is releasing 2+3 simultaneously....releasing 3 before 2....or something else....if he "cupped" his left wrist at top and start down...what would happen?...
Could be trying to cut it . . . . you got the #4 piece right.
Could be trying to cut it . . . . you got the #4 piece right.
Bucket, you got me thinking as usual...if you are planning to use a specific hinge action to alter ball flight...at which stage of the swing does one's pattern show the fact that you are using a specific hinge?
ie. do all back and downswing looks the same until the hinge? (albeit with the hinge mentally programmed before downswing).
Is the hinge action "supposed" to be evident in the backstroke??
Back on topic...this is one of KOC's great videos... although it does demo a very special musical taste that he has developed! it also shows a great view of accumulator 4 release and the long journey that the hands take whilst leaving the right shoulder behind....right shoulder continues movement but less that during the initial start down. Seems to have very little overlap between acc 4 release and acc 2 release...no? ( at about 1:01 mins)
Release of acc.4 is about left arm above nipple line going to below nipple line rather than keeping something under left armpit.
Look at Hogan (the model for Hardy 1PS as I understand it):
Quite alot of room in between chest and left arm.
Seperate issue...no real attempt to threadjack....Looking at Jeff Ritter in photo 3 - he has rotated the clubface off the inclined plane (ie. sweetspot plane seperate from shaft plane ...unlike at top/end) and still appears to have quite alot of wristcock....he has a FLW from top ...and is onplane. Do people think that he is releasing 2+3 simultaneously....releasing 3 before 2....or something else....if he "cupped" his left wrist at top and start down...what would happen?...
Wow what a flying wedge and arched left wrist - no chance to bend the left wrist from that alignment.
Hybrid Mode
