The first three Sections of the Downstroke are Start Down (8-7), Downstroke (8-8 ) and Release (8-9).
The Action you describe is the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). It is a defined Stroke Pattern Component (#20) Variation used to Trigger the Release of the Power Package. Accordingly, it is employed at Release (8-9), not at the "beginning of the downswing" (8-7).
You do your man a disservice to continue to assert otherwise.
I'm doing a disservice.....you're the one with Tom Tomasello demonstrating it on video in the gallery of this site.
Lynn....you need to watch the videos of Tommy....eventhough he is throwing/karate chopping from the top the clubhead is not going into it's release orbit. I believe that's why we have seen a change in the release component in the 6th to 7th edition....where the change went from 10-24-B to 10-24-E (even on your first phone call to Homer....Homer told Tommy to concentrate on Longitudinal acceleration...it's lengthwise acceleration). It's an automatic release. Watch letter series #2 video..you can't be a good student if you don't watch the instruction!!!
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 12-01-2008 at 01:54 AM.
Yoda - In defense of DG's position, I cannot understand how you can infer that TT's "right arm throw" action should start with a 8-7 start down move. I can understand a pivot-driven swing starting with a 8-7 start down move and that the right arm throw is only used to trigger the release of the power package. However, TT specifically states that one must start the downswing with a "right arm throw action" that throws the clubshaft down-and-out onto the plane before the body moves. TT also specifically states that one should get the "feeling" of getting the clubhead past the left thigh before the body moves. Of course, that's not possible, but I cannot understand TT's intent - which is to make the body reactive to the throw, and that it should respond secondarily to the throw action - rather than preceding the throw action (ala Ben Hogan).
DG
My understanding of a karate chop action is an action where one drives the forearm down in such a manner that the wrist will uncock in the plane of the forearm motion, which means that the forearm movement must be in an ulnar direction. That's what the left forearm does during TT's right arm throw action where the clubshaft is thrown down-and-out onto the plane. However, the right forearm is 90 degrees opposed to the left arm flying wedge which means that the right forearm must move in a direction where the ventral aspect of the right forearm (front of the right forearm) is thrown down-and-out. In that sense, the motion of the right forearm cannot be correctly described as a karate chop action.
Yoda - In defense of DG's position, I cannot understand how you can infer that TT's "right arm throw" action should start with a 8-7 start down move. I can understand a pivot-driven swing starting with a 8-7 start down move and that the right arm throw is only used to trigger the release of the power package. However, TT specifically states that one must start the downswing with a "right arm throw action" that throws the clubshaft down-and-out onto the plane before the body moves. TT also specifically states that one should get the "feeling" of getting the clubhead past the left thigh before the body moves. Of course, that's not possible, but I cannot understand TT's intent - which is to make the body reactive to the throw, and that it should respond secondarily to the throw action - rather than preceding the throw action (ala Ben Hogan).
First, there is no TGM defense of DG's position.
Second, since you provided no quote or reference regarding my "inference", I can only presume that you are referring to my Post #120 above. That being the case, I clearly stated that the Release Trigger is employed at -- gasp! -- the Release (8-9) and not at Start Down (8-7).
Third, as far as Tom Tomasello and what he taught is concerned, I could care less, except that I am growing weary of correcting misconceptions either taught by him or promoted as being taught by him.
I'm doing a disservice.....you're the one with Tom Tomasello demonstrating it on video in the gallery of this site.
Lynn....you need to watch the videos of Tommy....eventhough he is throwing/karate chopping from the top the clubhead is not going into it's release orbit. I believe that's why we have seen a change in the release component in the 6th to 7th edition....where the change went from 10-24-B to 10-24-E (even on your first phone call to Homer....Homer told Tommy to concentrate on Longitudinal acceleration...it's lengthwise acceleration). It's an automatic release. Watch letter series #2 video..you can't be a good student if you don't watch the instruction!!!
DG,
Your post has about as many confused concepts as it does lines, and I refuse to waste my time correcting them. I will, however, expose (and correct) the most egregious error relevant to this thread.
The Basic Stroke Patterns (12-1-0 / Drive [Radial] Loading and 12-2-0 / Drag [Longitudinal] Loading) were introduced with the 4th Editon. The Right Arm Throw (10-20-B) was the designated Release Trigger (Component #20) for Drive Loading and the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) was the designated Variation for Drag Loading. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED! Not from the 4th to the 5th editions. Not from the 5th to the 6th editions. And certainly not from the 6th to the 7th editions.
In fact, in ALL the Stroke Patterns of ALL seven editions, NEVER ONCE has the Right Arm Throw been associated with Longitudinal Loading. The truth is that it has ALWAYS been associated with DRIVE Loading.
DG, your continued blatant disregard for The Golfing Machine as written by Homer Kelley and studied by Authorized Instructors and interested amateurs around the world is inconsistent with the mission of this website. Given your 'time in grade', to say that I am disappointed is an understatement. If these outrageous (and seemingly deliberate) inaccuracies continue, my only recourse will be to limit your posts to a dedicated thread prefaced by my own Caveat Emptor warning.
Your post has about as many confused concepts as it does lines, and I refuse to waste my time correcting them. I will, however, expose (and correct) the most egregious error relevant to this thread.
The Basic Stroke Patterns (12-1-0 / Drive [Radial] Loading and 12-2-0 / Drag [Longitudinal] Loading) were introduced with the 4th Editon. The Right Arm Throw (10-20-B) was the designated Release Trigger (Component #20) for Drive Loading and the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) was the designated Variation for Drag Loading. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED! Not from the 4th to the 5th editions. Not from the 5th to the 6th editions. And certainly not from the 6th to the 7th editions.
In fact, in ALL the Stroke Patterns of ALL seven editions, NEVER ONCE has the Right Arm Throw been associated with Longitudinal Loading. The truth is that it has ALWAYS been associated with DRIVE Loading.
DG, your continued blatant disregard for The Golfing Machine as written by Homer Kelley and studied by Authorized Instructors and interested amateurs around the world is inconsistent with the mission of this website. Given your 'time in grade', to say that I am disappointed is an understatement. If these outrageous (and seemingly deliberate) inaccuracies continue, my only recourse will be to limit your posts to a dedicated thread prefaced by my own Caveat Emptor warning.
Wow....I wish I could say more...but this is your website and I'm you sure you would delete my response. Did you and Tommy have a falling out. I can't believe you were friends at the end.
Your post has about as many confused concepts as it does lines, and I refuse to waste my time correcting them. I will, however, expose (and correct) the most egregious error relevant to this thread.
The Basic Stroke Patterns (12-1-0 / Drive [Radial] Loading and 12-2-0 / Drag [Longitudinal] Loading) were introduced with the 4th Editon. The Right Arm Throw (10-20-B) was the designated Release Trigger (Component #20) for Drive Loading and the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) was the designated Variation for Drag Loading. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED! Not from the 4th to the 5th editions. Not from the 5th to the 6th editions. And certainly not from the 6th to the 7th editions.
In fact, in ALL the Stroke Patterns of ALL seven editions, NEVER ONCE has the Right Arm Throw been associated with Longitudinal Loading. The truth is that it has ALWAYS been associated with DRIVE Loading.
DG, your continued blatant disregard for The Golfing Machine as written by Homer Kelley and studied by Authorized Instructors and interested amateurs around the world is inconsistent with the mission of this website. Given your 'time in grade', to say that I am disappointed is an understatement. If these outrageous (and seemingly deliberate) inaccuracies continue, my only recourse will be to limit your posts to a dedicated thread prefaced by my own Caveat Emptor warning.
Wow....I wish I could say more...but this is your website and I'm you sure you would delete my response. Did you and Tommy have a falling out. I can't believe you were friends at the end.
Even before Tommy shook Homer's hand....he had 48 hours worth of phone conversations on audio tape. Wow....must have been a wealth of knowledge in those 48 hours let alone the 8 12 hour days that he spent with Homer in his master class that he also caught on audio tape. I really don't know how Tommy could've have gone wrong. And even Golf Illustrated interviewed him...something good must have been happening in those Swinging, Hitting and Advanced schools. I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure....
GI:What happens to the shots of a player who executes these moves?
Tomasello: The player will immediately hit the ball higher and straighter, and substantially longer. The flight pattern will be dead straight to its apex, with the ball falling a touch left or drawing fractionally as it descends.
Imagine that...surely none of us want that.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 12-01-2008 at 09:13 PM.
I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure....
DG wrote-: "Even before Tommy shook Homer's hand....he had 48 hours worth of phone conversations on audio tape. Wow....must have been a wealth of knowledge in those 48 hours let alone the 8 12 hour days that he spent with Homer in his master class that he also caught on audio tape. I really don't know how Tommy could've have gone wrong. And even Golf Illustrated interviewed him...something good must have been happening in those Swinging, Hitting and Advanced schools. I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure...."
This is a totally irrational argument. One's ability to understand TGM is not directly proportional to the amount of time a TGM enthusiast spent with HK, or the number of hours he personally spent thinking about TGM teachings. There is a confounding variable in this simplistic cause-and-effect equation - the intellect of the TGM enthusiast and his mental ability to correctly digest HK's ideas. When DG states that he doesn't know "how Tommy could have gone wrong", it only reflects his personal bias and his inability to mentally entertain alternative perspectives. I would greatly respect DG's opinions if he could describe TT's ideas using TGM terminology and TGM mechanics/biomechanics. However, he never attempts to describe TT's ideas - he simply states that the "evidence" is clearly evident in TT's articles/videos/audio tapes. That's like the church scientists of the Vatican who clearly believed that the earth was flat (because of their biblical teachings) and who didn't think that alternative perspectives (Galileo's belief that the earth was round) could possibly be correct.
DG wrote-: "Even before Tommy shook Homer's hand....he had 48 hours worth of phone conversations on audio tape. Wow....must have been a wealth of knowledge in those 48 hours let alone the 8 12 hour days that he spent with Homer in his master class that he also caught on audio tape. I really don't know how Tommy could've have gone wrong. And even Golf Illustrated interviewed him...something good must have been happening in those Swinging, Hitting and Advanced schools. I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure...."
This is a totally irrational argument. One's ability to understand TGM is not directly proportional to the amount of time a TGM enthusiast spent with HK, or the number of hours he personally spent thinking about TGM teachings. There is a confounding variable in this simplistic cause-and-effect equation - the intellect of the TGM enthusiast and his mental ability to correctly digest HK's ideas. When DG states that he doesn't know "how Tommy could have gone wrong", it only reflects his personal bias and his inability to mentally entertain alternative perspectives. I would greatly respect DG's opinions if he could describe TT's ideas using TGM terminology and TGM mechanics/biomechanics. However, he never attempts to describe TT's ideas - he simply states that the "evidence" is clearly evident in TT's articles/videos/audio tapes. That's like the church scientists of the Vatican who clearly believed that the earth was flat (because of their biblical teachings) and who didn't think that alternative perspectives (Galileo's belief that the earth was round) could possibly be correct.
Jeff.
Jeff,
Review the Letter Series and the Australian Series- especially Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 - it's all there!!! You need to watch it at least 100 times before you understand the details. If you want the article from Golf Illustrated - PM me and I'll send it to you - Go Tommy YEE HAW!!!
__________________
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Jeff,
Review the Letter Series and the Australian Series- especially Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 - it's all there!!! You need to watch it at least 100 times before you understand the details. If you want the article from Golf Illustrated - PM me and I'll send it to you - Go Tommy YEE HAW!!!
Hybrid Mode
