Heavy hit

[Mike O]

Golfbulldog - you are correctly identifying my question.

You wrote-: "the idea that if you can minimise the deceleration of the clubhead during impact "zero deceleration is what would give maximum ball speed...".

Is that possible? Is it possible to ensure that the clubhead does not decelerate during impact by maintaining a lot of clubhead lag pressure (presumably by increasing right triceps muscle push-tone force during impact)? When PA#2 releases, there is presumably a sense of decreased lag pressure at PP#3. I presume that a good golfer instinctively increases right triceps isometric muscle tone to prevent any decrease in the "feel" of lag pressure at PP#3 (during the PA#2 release process) from happening. Is that true considering how fast PA#2 releases? Is that controllable/trainable?

Jeff.

Jeff, To keep it simple - As you are referring to right triceps muscle push- you'd be limiting your discussion to hitting.

If you lose lag pressure when you release an accumulator- you've got problems!

[Jeff]

DIG

I didn't think that it is possible. I was wondering whether people were postulating varying amounts of right arm thrust power for a given amount of right wrist bend at impact (= given amount of forward shaft lean = given amount of clubhead lag) even though swingers do not actively hit.

Jeff.

[12 piece bucket]

DIG

I didn't think that it is possible. I was wondering whether people were postulating varying amounts of right arm thrust power for a given amount of right wrist bend at impact (= given amount of forward shaft lean = given amount of clubhead lag) even though swingers do not actively hit.

Jeff.

Jeff . . . Homer said that he felt lag pressure so strong that he felt like he could lift himself off the ground . . . BUT he also said that lag pressure is measured out in ounces not pounds. That a pound of lag pressure would be too much to sustain . . . hmmmmmmm . . . . not really sure how to reconcile that.

I'm not sure that in your above post you actually are equating lag pressure with shaft lean . . . . there is a connection there . . . however . . . . . . . . . shaft lean must also be metered out in appropriate amounts for the shot at hand and the club in hand . . . . . nicking the loft with shaft lean on the short irons works . . . . but maybe not such a good concept with the longer less lofted irons . . . see Lee Trevino . . . .

This is one of the reasons you want to be sure that you take your grip at fix . . . . a "leany" fix maybe really good with the short irons . . . but you may need the loft with the longer clubs so back of the lean and swing appropriately.

There is "accumulator lag", "lagging components", a "lagging clubhead" and LAG PRESSURE. You don't have to have ooodles of the first 3 to have the last one. Pressure is . . . well pressure. Swingers generally will feel less pressure generally due to the loading and the pressure point loading on the knuckle and moving back to the fleshy pad (or not moving).

[okie]

12P,

Do you think this is where the club manufacturers have done a number on us? I feel as my mechanics get better my ball flight becomes lower. I know how to fix this...at...fix, but I love the crunch that a "leany" shaft provides. Is that why Trevino put a 6 wood in the bag? Too much shaft lean made the butter knifes impractical? It seems as though good mechanics and modern lofts are somewhat at odds.

[coolstv88]

Jeff, To keep it simple - As you are referring to right triceps muscle push- you'd be limiting your discussion to hitting.

If you lose lag pressure when you release an accumulator- you've got problems!

Couldn't this slight increase in right tricept muscle force also be atributed to extensor action, it is impossible for the right tricept to ever be completly inert as some force must be exterted to creast extensor action to take the slack out of the assembly.

[Mike O]

Couldn't this slight increase in right tricept muscle force also be atributed to extensor action, it is impossible for the right tricept to ever be completly inert as some force must be exterted to creast extensor action to take the slack out of the assembly.

Within the context Jeff's post- I was thinking any comment to right tricep pushing was used in the context of an acceleration force. Certainly, in the context of your post - regarding extensor action there would be right tricep muscle force attributed to extensor action- separate from any pushing acceleration force.

[Jeff]

12PB

You wrote-: "Jeff . . . Homer said that he felt lag pressure so strong that he felt like he could lift himself off the ground . . . BUT he also said that lag pressure is measured out in ounces not pounds. That a pound of lag pressure would be too much to sustain . . . hmmmmmmm . . . . not really sure how to reconcile that."

That's my problem understanding lag pressure and its affect on ball flight distance. Each club needs a different level of forward shaft lean at impact (more for short irons). Therefore, for a given amount of forward clubshaft lean and a given clubhead speed at impact, wouldn't the amount of lag pressure experienced at impact be the same for different swinger-golfers who do not drive load the shaft? How could there be variations in the degree of loss of clubhead forward speed due to impact? How could different golfers have different levels of a "heavy hit" (whatever that means)?

Jeff.

[golfbulldog]

Jeff, the section I quoted from 2-E (6th edition) about zero deceleration was Homer's statement - a theoretical ideal not a practical one... but it does appear that he thought that some resistance to deceleration was possible by maintaining shaft stress through lag pressure.

This may be an area for TGM summit people ?

Perhaps scientifically incorrect but a very real feeling.?? LAG pressure at impact is the way to achieve it...if it is possible to resist deceleration....but then we want lag pressure at impact for other reasons (alignment / stop floipping)....

So stick with lag pressure - let science people worry about impact deceleration - but in the back of your mind accept that HK may have got that that bit incorrect...but he got the big bits right.

[12 piece bucket]

12PB

You wrote-: "Jeff . . . Homer said that he felt lag pressure so strong that he felt like he could lift himself off the ground . . . BUT he also said that lag pressure is measured out in ounces not pounds. That a pound of lag pressure would be too much to sustain . . . hmmmmmmm . . . . not really sure how to reconcile that."

That's my problem understanding lag pressure and its affect on ball flight distance. Each club needs a different level of forward shaft lean at impact (more for short irons). Therefore, for a given amount of forward clubshaft lean and a given clubhead speed at impact, wouldn't the amount of lag pressure experienced at impact be the same for different swinger-golfers who do not drive load the shaft? How could there be variations in the degree of loss of clubhead forward speed due to impact? How could different golfers have different levels of a "heavy hit" (whatever that means)?

Jeff.

Homer liked a "stock" amount of lag pressure . .. for consistency reasons I think. Hitters typically feel the load more due to the nature of the loading.

I'm not sure that there's a correlation of shaft lean to lag pressure . . . plus you may feel more pressure with longer clubs simply because they are longer. Bottom line you want to have a lag pressure that you can SUSTAIN and the PROPER amount of shaft lean for the shot you have selected and hopefully programmed at fix.

[no_mind_golfer]

Collisions equation:

" I used to hit that 1-iron off the fairway and knock the son-of-a bitch 250 yards on the carry. Mike Growled" http://books.google.com/books?id=GqF...um=1&ct=result

Austin was talking about a one-iron he made where he brazed a tungsten rod to the back of the club-face at the sweet spot. By doing that he increased Ma from what's normally about 0.2 kg to something much more. Maybe it was 0.3 kg.... So then assuming he could swing a "heavy" one-iron (say 0.3 kg) just as fast as he could swing a "light" one-iron (0.2 kg) tt (remember he was big and quite a strong athlete)

Vb = Vo (.3/.346)(1 + e) or Vo => 0.86 * 1.83 Vo = 1.58 Vo

1.58/1.48 = 7.2%

The ball would leave the club-face of Mike's modified one-iron having 7.2% more speed (provided he could swing the club just as fast). You see there is the catch. The heavier the club the more inertia it has. The more inertia it has the more force (and torque) is required to accelerate it. Over the years golfers have arrived at the optimal compromise for a given body type... we call that that "swing weight".

Its safe to say few people would be able to make Mike Austin's modified one-iron perform. Perhaps Sean Fister or Jason Zubak could...