MFT swing

[pistol]

The link Jeff posted has some interesting stuff to explore. This thread has deteriorated into a run of the mill........

What thread jack?? from me ?? should i just read instead ??

[Hennybogan]

What thread jack?? from me ?? should i just read instead ??

Pistol,

I don't think you jacked the thread. I think you responded the jack. Definitely post.

[pistol]

Pistol,

I don't think you jacked the thread. I think you responded the jack. Definitely post.

OK HB whats this thread about again?

[Hennybogan]

I don't remember

[O.B.Left]

I don't remember

Henny, Bucket You guys are great but .....Its christmas. How 'bout sharing something.

Tell us what you would change or add to the article. Geometry? How do you rotate those hips 180 degrees or whatever? With the right hip? HOgan talked about driving the right knee but was this really his right hip driving?

O.B.


PS My two cents worth is, what the heck does a Hawaiin know about hockey slap shots? Thats like me talking about HULa dancing, OOps I have.

[Jeff]

OB Left

I actually encourage detailed posts from forum members. I am not discouraging HB and 12PB from posting a detailed post on their viewpoint(s).

However, I am very critical in my analysis of posts, and I parse every sentence in a post for its logical coherence in terms of cause-and-effect relationships. If somebody believes that a 2nd hip firing and 2nd shoulder firing in the late downswing (just prior to impact) can increase ball flight distance, then I expect them to make sure that their argument is intellectually coherent and concordant with established TGM beliefs.

GBD

You wrote-: "I am not convinced that the arm rotational velocity increase much between green diamond and blue circle (time point for max arm speed)... the arm speed trace seems to plateau at about the same time as the shoulder rotation...approximately."

I am surprised that you harbor that belief. I have always believed that one needs to release PA#4 efficiently so that the arms swing freely across the body into impact. John Jacobs in his book "Practical Golf" strongly emphazises a free flowing arm swing. The arms should not outrace the torso, but they definitely shouldn't only travel as fast as the torso rotates. The arms should surely travel faster than the upper torso in the late downswing.

Here is a photo series of Ben Hogan's swing. Note how the left arm progressively separates from the chest wall (and hands move further away from the right shoulder) during the downswing.



That's what I call an efficient release of PA#4.

Jeff.

[12 piece bucket]

Here is a photo series of Ben Hogan's swing. Note how the left arm progressively separates from the chest wall (and hands move further away from the right shoulder) during the downswing.




That's what I call an efficient release of PA#4.

Jeff.

Great pictures Jeff . . . I totally agree with your last sentence. Paying particular attention to the last 4 frames . . . the shoulders don't seem to be adding much to the mix . . . there certainly is some turning but there sure doesn't seem to be a huge amout of rotation happening. The left arm seems to be moving down the chest FAST. Looks like there are some vertical forces to and from the ground.

Do you have any pictures of "hackers" that you could put up against this? It think you'd find that the hands stay "HIGH" compared to Mr. Hogan.

Very nice pictures . . . . I think this works nicely with the basics of this MTF or MFT or MF'er swing or whatever. I'm not sure about all that 2nd firing mess but what I do believe is there is something to be said about vertical forces from/to the ground and NOT having the shoulders just pull the arms over or under plane. Seem to be some similarities to the baseball "guru" dude. They seem to be really "STRECHING OUT". Maximum extension from the feet up through the spine. Maximum extension of the spine is going to have some reverse C stuff going ala Zubak.

[golfbulldog]

OB Left
GBD

You wrote-: "I am not convinced that the arm rotational velocity increase much between green diamond and blue circle (time point for max arm speed)... the arm speed trace seems to plateau at about the same time as the shoulder rotation...approximately."

I am surprised that you harbor that belief. I have always believed that one needs to release PA#4 efficiently so that the arms swing freely across the body into impact. John Jacobs in his book "Practical Golf" strongly emphazises a free flowing arm swing. The arms should not outrace the torso, but they definitely shouldn't only travel as fast as the torso rotates. The arms should surely travel faster than the upper torso in the late downswing.

Jeff.

Jeff, with reference to the paper that you quoted - the peak rotational velocity for the arm and thorax appear at approximately the same time point - green diamond and blue circle. So it is not so much my belief...rather my interpretation of that data....arm velocity is greater than thorax velocity but the peak velocity of each appears to coincide.

Seems to me that acceleration of arm is dependent on thorax in THAT swing. You can use TGM concepts to interpret this golfers data...but you can not use this golfers data to prove or disprove the validity of TGM...however expert he may be. Homer said that even the best pros do not always do it as well as they might...or something to that effect...so studying their photos to prove / disprove TGM does not work.

My interpretation of TGM is that the pivot carries an "arm swing" until release of acc 4 then the pivot moves to support alignment of the power package in accordance with plane line etc... again, not a belief - just an interpretation of the literature. Once acc 4 is released a free arm swing will have no further rotational acceleration but should maintain approx. constant velocity until release of acc. 2,3. My interpretation of the book. I ca sleep at night if its incorrect though...

[Hennybogan]

Henny, Bucket You guys are great but .....Its christmas. How 'bout sharing something.

Tell us what you would change or add to the article. Geometry? How do you rotate those hips 180 degrees or whatever? With the right hip? HOgan talked about driving the right knee but was this really his right hip driving?

O.B.


PS My two cents worth is, what the heck does a Hawaiin know about hockey slap shots? Thats like me talking about HULa dancing, OOps I have.

TGM has the geometry covered...not much this guy is going to tell us.

I would not turn my hips 180 degrees unless I wanted to have left knee surgery.

I've read that bit that Hogan said about running the right knee at the ball, but I have not seen Hogan do it.