You are correct to state that the right wrist remains bent post-impact and that it would be theoretically possible to hit up on the ball with a bent right wrist. However, that would only be possible if the ball was teed up well ahead of the left foot on a high tee. Also, the hands (despite a bent right wrist) would be angled forwards at that time point and not be angled backwards.
Look at these photos of Tiger Woods. He maintains a bent right wrist throughout the followthrough phase of the swing - and he could theoretically hit upwards with his driver if he teed the ball more forwards - see image 2.
In image 2, it would be possible to hit up on a teed ball if the ball was placed on a long tee at that point - where the clubhead is located. However, his hands would not be angled backwards or be vertical (despite the bent right wrist) at impact. The hands would be angled forwards.
Arrogance? Cool. Because I sometimes disagree with...... YOU?
Then what about you? If I am arrogant then you must be something that supersedes arrogance. Have you ever thought about the number of brilliant golf minds that dont post very often in your caveat emptor forum. This is what motivated my previous post. Your inflexible, debate oriented style has driven them away. People who have devoted their professional lives to acquiring the knowledge you debate and often dismiss. This is an arrogance of a higher order.
I love the evidence you presented of your ability to change your opinion. From disbelief to "adopting a more equivocal position of ambivalence". Wow. Thats some flexibility you got there.
You are correct to state that the right wrist remains bent post-impact and that it would be theoretically possible to hit up on the ball with a bent right wrist. However, that would only be possible if the ball was teed up well ahead of the left foot on a high tee. Also, the hands (despite a bent right wrist) would be angled forwards at that time point and not be angled backwards.
Jeff.
"Only" is a very exclusive word. Highlighted (by me) in red is a small point but an important one. The location of the fulcrum (the Left Shoulder) is much more important than the location of the foot, when considering the possibility of an upward strike. For example, I could position the ball inside my foot and outside my Left Shoulder (very wide stance and/or too much axis tilt at Address), and I'd have the ability to strike the ball with an ascending blow. In contrast, I could have the ball outside of my left foot and still catch the ball with a descending blow. It would require a forward leaning spine and/or a very narrow stance. Either scenario could place my left shoulder forward of the ball.
The following pictures are from the same frame (7 frames post Impact). The 2nd picture is zooming in on my hands, just to echo the ability of the Right Wrist to remain bent post Impact.
However, I presume that we both agree that it would not be a good idea to have a forward-leaning spine tilt at impact when hitting a driver.
Also, I generally agree with you when you state-: "I could position the ball inside my foot and outside my Left Shoulder (very wide stance and/or too much axis tilt at Address), and I'd have the ability to strike the ball with an ascending blow." However, I think that Jamie Sadlowski has the ability to hit a descending blow under those same conditions - because his left upper arm is well ahead of his left shoulder socket at impact, and he also has a large degree of left elbow bend at impact which moves his left forearm behind (inside) his left upper arm and it also angles his left forearm backwards away from the target.
OB left
You wrote-: "Arrogance? Cool. Because I sometimes disagree with...... YOU?"
Not at all. I welcome disagreements and I would never label someone arrogant for disagreeing with me. I actually like disagreements because it forces me to rethink my position. I only used the term "arrogant" because your statement implied that you are intellectually capable of changing your mind, while simultaneously implying that I am too rigid a thinker and therefore "a priori" incapable of intellectually changing my mind in the face of a good counterargument.
I have changed my mind about many points regarding the golf swing - particularly since I started studying TGM in earnest (starting in April 2008 ). In particular, it has significantly changed my personal approach to my own golf swing. I never realized to what degree I was switter (because I unconsciously used "right arm power" in my downswing) until I more clearly understood the differences in power accumulator use in swinging versus hitting. I have now radically revamped my personal golf swing by becoming a much more "pure" swinger rather than a switter. I also recently changed my mind regarding head position in the golf swing. I used to keep my pelvis centralized at address, and I then tilted my upper torso rightwards to acquire some rightwards spinal tilt at address. That caused my stationary head to be positioned well right-of-center. I now much prefer Yoda's suggestion that one should keep the head centralized at adddress, and then shift the pelvis left-laterally at address to acquire a rightwards tilted spine. It works much better for me. The third major TGM-induced change of mind came when I more clearly understood the importance of extensor action - I only recently realized that extensor action is critically important in preventing chicken-winging of the left arm at impact, and that's another very useful insight. Hopefully, I will gain more TGM insights in the months/years ahead.
Jeff.
Last edited by Jeff : 01-02-2009 at 12:50 AM.
Reason: added another paragraph
You ask how JS hits the ball high with only a 4-6 degree driver loft and a descending clubhead path pre-impact?
Good question.
Maybe that forward kick of the shaft is "real" and not due to camera artifact.
If you go to nmgolfers website at http://nmgolfscience.tripod.com you will find a 200 page research paper called "Role of Shaft Stiffness" by Sasho MacKenzie. Interestingly, it demonstrates that many golfers may have 5cm of lead deflection of the clubhead at impact.
Here is a diagram from that research paper that shows how dynamic loft changes with lead or toe deflection.
It shows that dynamic loft increases by 0.8 degrees for every 1cm of lead deflection. That means that 5cm of lead deflection would increase dynamic loft by 4 degrees.
However, I presume that we both agree that it would not be a good idea to have a forward-leaning spine tilt at impact when hitting a driver.
That's true, unless you've ever played at Kiawah Island. So, your presumption is too narrow. I can lower my launch angle by 8 degrees with forward spine tilt, which could be an advantage in a 50mph headwind.
Originally Posted by Jeff
Yodas Luke
I agree with you regarding those scenarios.
Also, I generally agree with you when you state-: "I could position the ball inside my foot and outside my Left Shoulder (very wide stance and/or too much axis tilt at Address), and I'd have the ability to strike the ball with an ascending blow." However, I think that Jamie Sadlowski has the ability to hit a descending blow under those same conditions - because his left upper arm is well ahead of his left shoulder socket at impact, and he also has a large degree of left elbow bend at impact which moves his left forearm behind (inside) his left upper arm and it also angles his left forearm backwards away from the target.
Jeff.
Then, as you have also shown, we agree about the use of the word "only". And, we also agree that the fulcrum, whether it's the elbow, the shoulder, or the wrist, is the deciding factor in the descending or ascending clubhead. It has little to do with the foot.
You wrote-: "That's true, unless you've ever played at Kiawah Island. So, your presumption is too narrow. I can lower my launch angle by 8 degrees with forward spine tilt, which could be an advantage in a 50mph headwind."
I can accept a small degree of forward spinal tilt in the downswing when hitting a short iron. However, I think that it could be very problematic when hitting a driver - because I believe that a rightwards spinal tilt allows the right shoulder to move downplane at the start of the downswing, while a leftwards tilted spine would predispose to roundhousing and an OTT move. I also think that it is much more difficult to keep in balance during a driver downswing when having forward spinal tilt.
You also wrote-: "Then, as you have also shown, we agree about the use of the word "only". And, we also agree that the fulcrum, whether it's the elbow, the shoulder, or the wrist, is the deciding factor in the descending or ascending clubhead. It has little to do with the foot."
Hybrid Mode
