Everyone teaches patterns. Some single ones. Others multiple ones around a players basic pattern. JE has his and describes it in non TGM lingo. What he does and how he does it are based on the concepts just fine. #5 is a concept too that encompasses F.Swivel in an unusual way.
You can keep looking at the photos all you like though until you stand and "do" with him you will never "feel" the drive thrust in it.
He sits within our paradigm.
I only meant to say that JE's Pattern is a "My Way" Pattern. As strongly as he feels about it, he should teach it. But Once a "My Way" Pattern is designed and taught, I wouldn't call it TGM anymore. Call it J.E.M. or something so as not to confuse the Golfing Public.
I truly like what he says about Zone 1. The Pivot should keep moving and move far.
I disagree that everything he does and says resides within the Conceptual bounds of TGM. His theory is Anti-Power Package and Anti-Arm Acceleration Sequence. Additionally, the P3-4:30 position, which means that when the Clubshaft is Parallel to the Ground during the Downswing, but that the Butt End of the Club points to a 4:30 Position (inside Aft Quadrant of the Ball) on the Ball, is off Plane. When the Clubshaft is Parallel to the Ground it should also be Parallel to the Base-Line of the Inclined Plane. I don't disagree with him, but I don't think that his method should be called TGM.
In Fact, he better be at the 4:30 position with the Clubshaft because his hands are so far from the Ball at Release, he needs the extra Time for his Hands to stay ahead of the Clubhead at Impact.
The following Quote from the 6th Edition, Requires that the Golfer use a Turned Shoulder Plane and Hands Controlled Pivot. Otherwise one cannot get the Hands to the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball before Release. (TGM is a Method) JE has a Picture Perfect Pitched Elbow Location but it's forced. A Turned Shoulder Plane would Locate it Automatically.
Quote:
For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.
I fail to understand how the #5 Accumulator has reached Accumulator Status? I can't find an Out-of-Line condition? And especially because its Power Application begins after the Ball is Struck, maybe it should be Termed something other than an Accumulator.
Quote:
6-B-0 GENERAL Force is applied to the Ball through the Lever Assemblies. Power is applied to the Lever Assemblies through Pressure Points. Power is applied to the Pressure Points by Power Accumulators. Power Accumulators are out-of-line conditions of the Power Package Components. Out-of-line simply means “not in a straight line from end to end.” Releasing them to seek their in-line condition releases their stored potential. Varying the amount of out-of-line and/or the amount of muscular effort will vary the accumulation of Power that can be Released by the selected Triggering action. Accumulators are numbered in the order of their probable widest use in Stroke Type Combinations.
You (Daryl) stinking middle of the road TGM knowledge level amateuuuurs! This is kind of like the brown bag (engulfed in flames) that Bucket left at my doorstep...I ain't going near it! I do not get the 5th Acc. business, cuz I have a specific definition as to what an accumulator is. As Daryl says it is not an out of line condition...poetic license and TGM is like a cocktail...a molotov cocktail! Still, if you know what you are doing you can do it again.
This is clearly one of the more interesting threads about swinging vs hitting for a long time.
Daryl's clear and no-compromize analysis are both impressive and convincing. To be precise I am very impressed but not totally convinced at the moment.
The pictures shows quiet hips through impact. Which is very different from what I expect to see from e.g. Sergio Garcias swing. I tend to regard the quiet hips as a sign of a driving force at work. The body waiting for the hands to catch up. And also as an enabler of more angular hinge action. Which all correlate with hitting I believe.
This is a good opportunity to learn a lessen so I will appreciate a comment from Daryl and those who disagree with him.
The Video tells a different story about his Zone 1. It's Fluid, Powerful and Far Moving.
Driving the Right Forearm doesn’t differentiate Hitting and Swinging.
Quote:
1-F RIGHT ARM OR LEFT The “mystery” of the Mechanics of Golf fades away when Right Arm participation is understood (6-B-1). Whether its participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually because in either case the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING. But it is always a Left Arm Stroke unless the Right Elbow replaces the Left Shoulder as the center of Clubhead Arc. (10-3-K)
Thrusting the #3 Pressure Point doesn’t differentiate Hitting and Swinging. Swingers thrust on-plane. The “Feeling” that you want Three Right Hands is Clubhead Lag (dead weight inertia) combined with Angular Acceleration.
Quote:
6-C-2-A THE ESSENCE of Clubhead Lag technique is that it is always both Aiming AND Thrust. Passive – it is primarily Aiming the Lag Pressure. Active – it is the primarily Thrusting the Lag Pressure Point. The Orbiting Clubhead does not seek out the Ball – it seeks out the Delivery Line. But never directly – only via the Right Forearm and the #3 Pressure Point per 2-F, 5-0 and 7-3. It is guided along that Line to the Both Arms Straight configuration by the straight line thrust of the #3 Pressure Point toward the Angle of Approach quadrant of the Ball – or Aiming Point – per 1-F, 1-L-9/10, 2-J-3 and 6-E-2.
6-C-2-B ANGULAR ACCELERATION The Clubhead “overtaking” speed is governed by the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum whereby the increased Mass resulting from any extension of the Swing Radius decelerates the hands and unless they are supported by Power Package Thrust (6-B-1) or Throw Out Action (2-K), can result in great loss of Clubhead Speed. Rely on Clubhead Lag to meter out the necessary support for the Primary Lever Assembly.
LOADING ACTION:
If you Load the #3 Pressure Point against the Primary Lever, then you’re preparing to Hit. This supports Hand Motion and the Power Package DRIVES the Right Elbow to along your Right Side at Release. From Release through Impact the Clubface is looking Down-plane and the Right Elbow Straightens like a Piston to Radial Drive the Clubshaft through Impact.
If you Load the #3 Pressure Point against the Secondary Lever, then you’re preparing to Swing. John Erickson Loads the #3 Pressure Point against the Secondary Lever. This supports the Wristcock and at Release, the Right Elbow is in Front of the Right Hip because the Power Package DROVE it to that Location. The Steeper the Plane Angle, the Closer to your Belt Buckle the Power Package DRIVES the Right Elbow.
RELEASE TRIGGERS
Now, One would think that his Right Arm Throw Trigger (from the Top) is a sign of a Hitter. Normally it is when the Direction of THRUST is at the Ball. However, for John Ericson, the Direction of Thrust is Down-plane but AWAY from the Ball, to His Right as he Uncocks His Elbow to get his Right Forearm On-Plane at Release. In John’s own Words: “On top of that, you have to learn what I believe to be the most difficult swing move in all of golf. Straightening the right arm out quickly on the downswing…while the torso turns flat or at right angles to the spine or axis. It’s a great move to master though, because if you can do it, you can’t ever get over the top of the shot and pull it.
For those who are still confused, it feels like you are coming right over the top to hit a big pull shot, but instead, that hands move straight down, as if they are going to land in your right hip pocket, but your shoulders are turning as flat a 15th century Spanish globe.”
There are TWO Right Arm Throws. The Second one (if you didn’t use the First) is used by Hitters at Release to Release the #2 and #3 Accumulators Simultaneously. You need a Punch Elbow Position to Use this Trigger.
John Erickson uses a Non-Automatic Sequenced Release. He Swivels his Left Wrist from Bent to Flat at the Start Of Release. This way, he has a Rolled Clubface at the Beginning of his Release. But because he Releases so Early, he must move His Hands (Uncocking but with a Rolled Clubface) another 12 inches until Impact. In slow-motion, it’s readily observed that his Pivot is Closing the Clubface for Impact. Clearly, this is not a Simultaneous Release. He is Confusing Hinging and Swiveling. I bet he Swivels when he Swings and that When he Hinges, it feels like Hitting.
John is using Feeling to describe his Mechanics. With the Greatest Golfers in the World, what they Describe and what actually happens are too often different.
John is a Pivot Controlled Hands Swinger. He doesn't use a Power Package according the the Concept by Homer Kelley. When he Bends and Unbends his Right Elbow, he breaks a Cardinal rule. 1 L-8 No proportion of the Lever Assembly can swing forward independently.
Unless in the extreme situations I have always struggeled to understand the difference between hitting and swinging. Great responses you have produced here.
I bet he Swivels when he Swings and that When he Hinges, it feels like Hitting.
Ok Ive been reading his stuff too. I like the his writing and his swing a lot. I dont doubt he thrusts actively. He should know.
But like Daryl's statement above, Im thinking that his former Swinging motion was maybe more based upon his first teacher's, Ben Doyle's, version of swinging than otherwise................an over swivel with the left hand rotating right on through the inclined plane in release being mistaken for a Horizontal Hinge. The left wrist not maintaining its alignment to the Horizontal Basic Plane.
No disrespect intended to Mr Doyle, he was the first authorized instructor and laid the ground work for all who followed. Being first had its disadvantages. The last one in doesnt have it very easy either, come to think of it.
I only meant to say that JE's Pattern is a "My Way" Pattern. As strongly as he feels about it, he should teach it. But Once a "My Way" Pattern is designed and taught, I wouldn't call it TGM anymore. Call it J.E.M. or something so as not to confuse the Golfing Public.
I truly like what he says about Zone 1. The Pivot should keep moving and move far.
I disagree that everything he does and says resides within the Conceptual bounds of TGM. His theory is Anti-Power Package and Anti-Arm Acceleration Sequence. Additionally, the P3-4:30 position, which means that when the Clubshaft is Parallel to the Ground during the Downswing, but that the Butt End of the Club points to a 4:30 Position (inside Aft Quadrant of the Ball) on the Ball, is off Plane. When the Clubshaft is Parallel to the Ground it should also be Parallel to the Base-Line of the Inclined Plane. I don't disagree with him, but I don't think that his method should be called TGM.
In Fact, he better be at the 4:30 position with the Clubshaft because his hands are so far from the Ball at Release, he needs the extra Time for his Hands to stay ahead of the Clubhead at Impact.
The following Quote from the 6th Edition, Requires that the Golfer use a Turned Shoulder Plane and Hands Controlled Pivot. Otherwise one cannot get the Hands to the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball before Release. (TGM is a Method) JE has a Picture Perfect Pitched Elbow Location but it's forced. A Turned Shoulder Plane would Locate it Automatically.
I fail to understand how the #5 Accumulator has reached Accumulator Status? I can't find an Out-of-Line condition? And especially because its Power Application begins after the Ball is Struck, maybe it should be Termed something other than an Accumulator.
Daryl,
You are making some great points about Lag's TGM. Lately, Mr. Erickson has been doing some writing about address alignments that, as an LBG / Brian Gay swing fanatic, I totally disagree with. I really like a lot of his ideas on playing the game, and I'm sure his information will continue to help me in this regard, but I choose to continue on the swing path we are learning here from Master YODA.
Thanks for the help in understanding the differences. Your posts are VERY enlightening and help keep me on track.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
This is kind of like the brown bag (engulfed in flames) that Bucket left at my doorstep...I ain't going near it! I do not get the 5th Acc. business, cuz I have a specific definition as to what an accumulator is. As Daryl says it is not an out of line condition...poetic license and TGM is like a cocktail...a molotov cocktail! Still, if you know what you are doing you can do it again.
Hybrid Mode
