That will be the day... You're an addict... You CAN'T quit posting. Google Narcissistic personality disorder to learn why.
Addiction, Drugs, Doctors, Psycho's, 12 piece bucket - Damn, you guys are making it nearly impossible for me not join in this thread! If they let me out of these tie downs on ward 5, I'll have the time to join you guys- in my current condition - just typing this short post with my tongue took 5hours (I think the guy before me on the keyboard was eating a peanut butter sandwich).
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Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Addiction, Drugs, Doctors, Psycho's, 12 piece bucket - Damn, you guys are making it nearly impossible for me not join in this thread! If they let me out of these tie downs on ward 5, I'll have the time to join you guys- in my current condition - just typing this short post with my tongue took 5hours (I think the guy before me on the keyboard was eating a peanut butter sandwich).
Who wants to bet that that wasn't no peanut butter on the keyboard . . . . the soap on the rope goes on your neck not around your wrists you doofus . . .
No place for that. You could just "do one", or start behaving with a little more courtesy for fellow members.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
Daryl,
The hips and shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine.
Tilting or dropping the right shoulders has no impact at all on creating ground forces.
Another myth is creating tilting of hips and shoulders. The reason they tilt is they are reacting to the spine, Tilting is a reaction to how the spine is moving.
In golf there is slight right lateral bending of the spine. This occurs to allow the right arm drive down into impact. Slight right lateral bending stabilizes at impact and extension of the upper body occurs at impact.
Regards Hogan,
Hogan talked about he fires his hips first, although was he aware his hips fired first, was he aware how this occurred. Golfers speak about how they feel their body moves although are they aware how this occurs.
Hogan had great lower body mechanics, Hogan knew how to create ground forces which created hip rotational speed for him and stabilizing his lower body at impact.
If you pay close attention you will notice from the beginning of Hogans downswing to impact his left knee maintains the same flexion. Hogan stabilized his lower body at impact and his hips decelerated. This allowed his upper body to close.
At impact notice Hogan sternum and belt buckle are in line this indicates. His shoulders and hip are square. His hips and shoulders are perpendicular to his spine.
Hogan has good movement patterns.
Hogan secret was in the dirt for sure he has wonderful lower body mechanics.
This was Hogans secret he knew how to create ground forces and knew how to stabilize his lower body at impact.
It's not about how big of a hip rotation you have, It's about how fast your can create speed before your lower body stabilizes at impact. Small rotation with fast acceleration is the key.
Which can reach peak speed fastest a huge hip rotation or a small hip rotation.
One other myth is trying to thrust your hips or turn them yourself. This is called superficial speed. When people try this they lack ground forces and can't create stabilization or deceleration of the hips at impact. The upper body can't catch up.Mechanics terms creates the over the top move. Everything spins out left.
Last edited by bioengine : 08-13-2009 at 01:20 PM.
Daryl,
The hips and shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine.
Tilting or dropping the right shoulders has no impact at all on creating ground forces.
Another myth is creating tilting of hips and shoulders. The reason they tilt is they are reacting to the spine, Tilting is a reaction to how the spine is moving.
In golf there is slight right lateral bending of the spine. This allows to be able to drive the right arm into impact. Slight right lateral bending stabilizes at impact and extension of the upper body occurs at impact.
If you pay close attention you will notice from the beginning of hogans downswing to impact his left knee maintains the same flexion. Hogan stabilized his lower body at impact and his hps decelerate. This allowed his upper body to close.
At impact notice Hogan sternum and belt buckle are in line this indicates. his shoulders and hip are square. His hips and shoulders are perpendicular to his spine.
This was Hogans secret he knew how to create ground forces and knew how to stabilize his lower body at impact.
It's not about how big of a hip rotation you have, It's about how fast your can create speed before your lower body stabilizes at impact. Small rotation with fast acceleration is the key.
Which can reach peak speed fastest a huge hip rotation or a small hip rotation.
One other myth is trying to thrust your hips or turn them yourself. This is called superficial speed. When people try this they lack ground forces and can't create stabilization or deceleration of the hips at impact. The upper body can't catch up.Mechanics terms creates the over the top move. Everything spins out left.
Good post . . .Interesting stuff here . . . we are now back on track hopefully from all the COM COAM mess . . . this is the meat of it. . . . This is how people improve not that other crap about whether CF is there or not.
So let's have some further discussion on what you've posted above. I think this is VERY important stuff.
Really like the part about Hogan's knee action . . . Interesting that what he prescribed doing wasn't what he actually ended up doing.
To your point about Hogan's left knee maintaining its flexion . . . . you can see this very cleary in comparison of the two sequences. Also the left knee maintaining it flexion obviously has implications to the other components. Particularly the slant of the hips, spine, and shoulders . . . as you know the club responds accordingly (altering plane angle, angle of approach & attack etc.) . . . so the pivot has HUGE geometry implications. With regards to when and how certain segments get in line.
So you have mention sheer forces (sp?) force across the ground and vertical . . . Is this the left knee piece you mentioned?
Another question . . . could you expand a bit on the lateral bending of the spine vs. the hips going forward. Would the hips moving forward not also creat tilt in the spine?
Good post . . .Interesting stuff here . . . we are now back on track hopefully from all the COM COAM mess . . . this is the meat of it. . . . This is how people improve not that other crap about whether CF is there or not.
So let's have some further discussion on what you've postedabove. I think this is VERY important stuff.
Really like the part about Hogan's knee action . . . Interesting that what he prescribed doing wasn't what he actually ended up doing.
To your point about Hogan's left knee maintaining its flexion . . . . you can see this very cleary in comparison of the two sequences. Also the left knee maintaining it flexion obviously has implications to the other components. Particularly the slant of the hips, spine, and shoulders . . . as you know the club responds accordingly (altering plane angle, angle of approach & attack etc.) . . . so the pivot has HUGE geometry implications. With regards to when and how certain segments get in line.
So you have mention sheer forces (sp?) force across the ground and vertical . . . Is this the left knee piece you mentioned?
Another question . . . could you expand a bit on the lateral bending of the spine vs. the hips going forward. Would the hips moving forward not also creat tilt in the spine?
The reason I pointed out Hogans Left knee flexion is so you could see he stabilized his lower body.
Ok let me add here so more info to develop a better understanding of lower body mechanics
Center Of Mass is where weight is central.Safely say the belly button.
COP Center Of Pressure is the center pressure between the feet.
Normal forces are the normal force applied perpendicular to ground by golfer through the feet/ground interface.
Shear forces are forces applied to parallel to or along the surface of the ground by golfer through the feet/ground interface.
A golfer starts with a shift of the center of pressure toward the rear foot as the club is "taken away" during the initial portion of the back swing. This shift moves the center of pressure behind the center of mass relative to an axis running along the target line. As the golfer nears the "top" of the back swing and begins transition from back swing rotation into down swing acceleration the center of pressure shifts forward toward the front foot. It is this action creating forward momentum that facilitates the production of shear force at the feet/ground interface. Ground reaction to the shear force created by the feet produces a force couple, which is translated through the legs to the hips segment. The force couple acts on the hips segment to produce torque and rotary acceleration. Once speed is transfered the lower body then stabilizes and the hips decelerate at impact.
The main reason for right lateral bending is so the right arm can react low point in the swing.
You can still move forward and maintain the hips and shoulders to be perpendicular to the spine.
The only time the hips can have an impact on lateral bending is if the left side of your lower body isn't stabilized or anchored.
Although this is a lower body stabilizing issue not spine related.
When hogan does his drill can you notice he lost flexion in his left left leg, his hips are open left and his upper body is square to his hips. Hogan lost his ground forces and lower stability. If hogan did this he may create a superficial hip speed, although he wouldn't have lower body stabilization and hip deceleration. this wouldn't allow hips speed to be transfered to his upper body or Load and fire his muscles.
Again the question remains was Hogan really aware how he created hip rotational speed or the demonstration is how he felt was how he created hip rotational speed. I'm not sure Hogan was aware how important the ground forces he created was the essence to Hogan creating hip rotational speed, lower body stabilizing at impact and hip deceleration, which allowed speed to transfer to his upper body, load and fire his muscles then his upper body would square up to his hips.
What we think or feel we are doing sometimes can be totally opposite to what we are truly doing.
The reason I pointed out Hogans Left knee flexion is so you could see he stabilized his lower body.
Ok let me add here so more info to develop a better understanding of lower body mechanics
Center Of Mass is where weight is central.Safely say the belly button.
COP Center Of Pressure is the center pressure between the feet.
Normal forces are the normal force applied perpendicular to ground by golfer through the feet/ground interface.
Shear forces are forces applied to parallel to or along the surface of the ground by golfer through the feet/ground interface.
A golfer starts with a shift of the center of pressure toward the rear foot as the club is "taken away" during the initial portion of the back swing. This shift moves the center of pressure behind the center of mass relative to an axis running along the target line. As the golfer nears the "top" of the back swing and begins transition from back swing rotation into down swing acceleration the center of pressure shifts forward toward the front foot. It is this action creating forward momentum that facilitates the production of shear force at the feet/ground interface. Ground reaction to the shear force created by the feet produces a force couple, which is translated through the legs to the hips segment. The force couple acts on the hips segment to produce torque and rotary acceleration. Once speed is transfered the lower body then stabilizes and the hips decelerate at impact.
The main reason for right lateral bending is so the right arm can react low point in the swing.
You can still move forward and maintain the hips and shoulders to be perpendicular to the spine.
The only time the hips can have an impact on lateral bending is if the left side of your lower body isn't stabilized or anchored.
Although this is a lower body stabilizing issue not spine related.
When hogan does his drill can you notice he lost flexion in his left left leg, his hips are open left and his upper body is square to his hips. Hogan lost his ground forces and lower stability. If hogan did this he may create a superficial hip speed, although he wouldn't have lower body stabilization and hip deceleration. this wouldn't allow hips speed to be transfered to his upper body or Load and fire his muscles.
Again the question remains was Hogan really aware how he created hip rotational speed or the demonstration is how he felt was how he created hip rotational speed. I'm not sure Hogan was aware how important the ground forces he created was the essence to Hogan creating hip rotational speed, lower body stabilizing at impact and hip deceleration, which allowed speed to transfer to his upper body, load and fire his muscles then his upper body would square up to his hips.
What we think or feel we are doing sometimes can be totally opposite to what we are truly doing.
Like it. Makes sense . . . . Now question for you on the two pics . . . .
A couple of observations on the two pics (drill vs. real) and your comments would be appreciated . . .
1. Shifting focus a bit to the right knee. Note that the spacing between the knees is much better in Hogan's "real" pic. The right leg is MUCH straighter at Start Down than in the "drill" pic. Also there is probably less flexion in the right knee than there was at address at this point. The right side gets "saggy" in the drill . . . would this be due to the COG you described above going parallel to the target line?
2. Is there a "direction" for the left knee in creating the forces you describe above? Should the left knee maintain its flexion AND move toward the target at startdown?
3. At what point in the stroke do the hips lose their flexion in the downswing? Or do should they? See below . ..
THIS
OR THIS?
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-14-2009 at 01:08 AM.
No place for that. You could just "do one", or start behaving with a little more courtesy for fellow members.
Have to agree.
No personal insults on either side please. Usually when a thread gets to this point its either getting really interesting or really overworked. There is still some good subject matter here if y'all can keep your cool.
One warning - this thread now has MikeO's attention so which pill do you want; red or blue?
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1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
No personal insults on either side please. Usually when a thread gets to this point its either getting really interesting or really overworked. There is still some good subject matter here if y'all can keep your cool.
One warning - this thread now has MikeO's attention so which pill do you want; red or blue?
If they let me out of these tie downs on ward 5, I'll have the time to join you guys- in my current condition - just typing this short post with my tongue took 5hours (I think the guy before me on the keyboard was eating a peanut butter sandwich).
Hybrid Mode
