Paul Bertholy and Bob MacDonald's Blast From the Past
Daryl,
Thanks for cleaning up and posting these Bob MacDonald images. I sincerely appreciate it!
Bambam, let's put these in a prominent place in our Gallery. Thanks!
P.S. Interested readers should know that, in the spring of 1982, Paul Bertholy, then 80-something years young and one of the most esteemed PGA of America teachers, gave me his personal copy of Bob MacDonald's 1927 book, Golf. At the conclusion of our two-day training session at his home at Foxfire in Pinehurst, NC, he motioned me out of the front room to a nearby closet. He opened the door, rambled around for a minute or so, and emerged with Bob's book, the same one he had referenced several times in our study. He then offered it up in both hands and said, "I want you to have this."
Thanks for cleaning up and posting these Bob MacDonald images. I sincerely appreciate it!
Bambam, let's put these in a prominent place in our Gallery. Thanks!
P.S. Interested readers should know that, in the spring of 1982, Paul Bertholy, then 80-something years young and one of the most esteemed PGA of America teachers, gave me his personal copy of Bob MacDonald's 1927 book, Golf. At the conclusion of our two-day training session at his home at Foxfire in Pinehurst, NC, he motioned me out of the front room to a nearby closet. He opened the door, rambled around for a minute or so, and emerged with Bob's book, the same one he had referenced several times in our study. He then offered it up in both hands and said, "I want you to have this."
Sorry . . . I just bought this one (my third!). Keep your searches working, and you'll soon find your own.
Lynnard . . . you still got your lead pipe? Mr. Bertholy was a TASKMASTER. I went to see him just before he died. I had just purchased the Machine . . . tried to read it . . . didn't get it . . . looked up golf skools on the intreenet and Mr. Bertholy's said he could make you swing like Hogan. So I decided I'd better go see him . . . pretty interesting stuff . . . and man his wife could make a good chicken salad samich. I remember him karate chopping wiffle balls to make them spin on a lunch table and popping you with pencils to illustrate #2 throw out snappy releaseeez.
I like exercises 10 and 11 personally. I see your objections, but think the exercises to be primarily body drills, Zone 1 and really more for the backswing than the downswing. The downswing for full shots normally having some Hip Slide , Axis Tilt as well as some lag to the Arms trailing the Body.
Per 7-12 the Pivot is a massive rotor that sets up the gyroscopic nature of the golf swing. In an actual golf swing, the Hands at about the position illustrated in exercise 11 appear to have Turned but they are still vertical to the Horizontal plane , the ground assuming, Horizontal Hinging. Most guys actually turn the forearms independently and often with a stalled Pivot, no clearing of the Right Hip and hence Mr Macdonalds drill number 10 and 11. The Forearms are Turned per say, but not independently! The Pivot can do much of it. Arm travel and forearm turn on the backswing are not as big as you would assume when isolated!
The first few inches of my swing feel exactly like exercise 10. Is this Pivot to Hands? Yes, briefly I guess, for me anyways. I feel like my turning right hip starts the club back on its journey. It goes really well with a Lagging Takeaway. As soon as I start to Right Forearm Pickup and Trace (1-L-6) the Hands are going Up as well as Back and In. And thereby on plane. Three dimensional Start Up. Lynn says the Hands can start Up right off the start though if you wish. You have to get into the Divergent Vectors of the Pivot and Arms to get this fully.
In short if you add a Right Forearm Pickup and 1-L-6 to Macdonald drill number 10 you've got Hands to Pivot and whatever plane angle you want. TSP or otherwise. Like you I prefer the TSP.
Doing just as illustrated in drills 10 and 11 would be Pivot to Hands and non planar for sure. But the body as rotor , Zone 1 is still critical to the golf swing. Hence the drill. Its a pure turn on an axis with no head Bob or Sway. Its sort of like how the 1-L machine without a second hinge pin would describe a cone shaped, non planar, Single Horizontal motion. Hence the second hinge pin, hence Dual Horizontal. The second Hinge Pin is not in the PIvot! The Pivot does not dictate the Plane Angle unless you are Pivot to Hands! Which would require a precise amount of waist bend to achieve a usable Plane Angle without a compensation of some sort.
I dunno. I've got a few videos of Lynn covering off these drills number 10 and 11 and a few other PIvot drills. Ill ask him if he would mind me putting them up on Youtube for all to see.
I like exercises 10 and 11 personally. I see your objections, but think the exercises to be primarily body drills, Zone 1 and really more for the backswing than the downswing. The downswing for full shots normally having some Hip Slide , Axis Tilt as well as some lag to the Arms trailing the Body.
Per 7-12 the Pivot is a massive rotor that sets up the gyroscopic nature of the golf swing. In an actual golf swing, the Hands at about the position illustrated in exercise 11 appear to have Turned but they are still vertical to the Horizontal plane , the ground assuming, Horizontal Hinging. Most guys actually turn the forearms independently and often with a stalled Pivot, no clearing of the Right Hip and hence Mr Macdonalds drill number 10 and 11. The Forearms are Turned per say, but not independently! The Pivot can do much of it. Arm travel and forearm turn on the backswing are not as big as you would assume when isolated!
The first few inches of my swing feel exactly like exercise 10. Is this Pivot to Hands? Yes, briefly I guess, for me anyways. I feel like my turning right hip starts the club back on its journey. It goes really well with a Lagging Takeaway. As soon as I start to Right Forearm Pickup and Trace (1-L-6) the Hands are going Up as well as Back and In. And thereby on plane. Three dimensional Start Up. Lynn says the Hands can start Up right off the start though if you wish. You have to get into the Divergent Vectors of the Pivot and Arms to get this fully.
In short if you add a Right Forearm Pickup and 1-L-6 to Macdonald drill number 10 you've got Hands to Pivot and whatever plane angle you want. TSP or otherwise. Like you I prefer the TSP.
Doing just as illustrated in drills 10 and 11 would be Pivot to Hands and non planar for sure. But the body as rotor , Zone 1 is still critical to the golf swing. Hence the drill. Its a pure turn on an axis with no head Bob or Sway. Its sort of like how the 1-L machine without a second hinge pin would describe a cone shaped, non planar, Single Horizontal motion. Hence the second hinge pin, hence Dual Horizontal. The second Hinge Pin is not in the PIvot! The Pivot does not dictate the Plane Angle unless you are Pivot to Hands! Which would require a precise amount of waist bend to achieve a usable Plane Angle without a compensation of some sort.
I dunno. I've got a few videos of Lynn covering off these drills number 10 and 11 and a few other PIvot drills. Ill ask him if he would mind me putting them up on Youtube for all to see.
Recently, I have been frustrated with my pivot sequence, just couldn't get it right. I read Watson's recent book, The Timeless Swing, and tried using his recommended drills for keeping the spine angle. It just was not working for me. I returned to the MacDonald drills, particularly numbers 10 and 11. They have been the key for me. Using those drills gives me a feel for what "turning in a barrel" is supposed to be. Combining the entire set of drills has worked wonders with my pivot sequence. My thought is that the entire set of drills is useful for ingraining the basic golf swing. Thanks again to Yoda for introducing them to me at least three years ago!
Recently, I have been frustrated with my pivot sequence, just couldn't get it right. I read Watson's recent book, The Timeless Swing, and tried using his recommended drills for keeping the spine angle. It just was not working for me. I returned to the MacDonald drills, particularly numbers 10 and 11. They have been the key for me. Using those drills gives me a feel for what "turning in a barrel" is supposed to be. Combining the entire set of drills has worked wonders with my pivot sequence. My thought is that the entire set of drills is useful for ingraining the basic golf swing. Thanks again to Yoda for introducing them to me at least three years ago!
I finally started using the MacDonald drills in my teaching this year. They have changed the way I teach and play golf.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I recall JWN stating that he would start every golf season swinging with his feet together, so he could get the proper weight shift and ankle roll.
"Ankle roll" is fine, as long as its Weight Shift doesn't roll the foot over and lift the outer edge.
On the backstroke, the left heel may lift, but the outer edge of the sole remains on the ground (as the weight shifts to the inside ball of the foot). Through Impact, the right foot similarly rolls (and its heel lifts). Then, the foot is dragged through by the Finish turn of the right hip (witness the sliding foot action of Hogan, Knudsen, Nelson, and so many more of the great champions).
I know that Jack Nicklaus rolled the edge of his left foot off the ground on the backstroke, then lifted his heel. But he succeeded in spite of that Balance disruption, not because of it.
Why did he do it?
Because that's what his teacher, Jack Grout, taught him to do (in the '50s).
And why did Mr. Grout teach him that move?
Because that's what his teacher, Henry Picard, taught him to do (in the '40s).
And why did Mr. Picard teach him to do that?
Because that's what Alex Morrison, the book guru and extremist theorist taught him (in the '30s).
That doesn't make it right, of course. But, that's the way it went down.
Position Golf is not Alignment Golf. Those who would play their best recognize the difference.
P.S. Interested readers should know that, in the spring of 1982, Paul Bertholy, then 80-something years young and one of the most esteemed PGA of America teachers, gave me his personal copy of Bob MacDonald's 1927 book, Golf. At the conclusion of our two-day training session at his home at Foxfire in Pinehurst, NC, he motioned me out of the front room to a nearby closet. He opened the door, rambled around for a minute or so, and emerged with Bob's book, the same one he had referenced several times in our study. He then offered it up in both hands and said, "I want you to have this."
I was grateful, but dumbfounded:
Why would he give away such a prized possession?
And why to me?
Only now am I starting to get the idea.
Lynn, sorry for the thread jack but this seems the right moment.........would you care to contrast Mr Bertholy's "Rod and Claw" with Homer's inert left arm and Extensor Action?
You, again, seem uniquely placed to give the ultimate description of both methodologies and so I must ask. Rod vs String so to speak. They both have merit to my mind.
Regards.
P.S. My apologies to Daryl for taking this great thread into Zone 2.
By moving the head off the ball during the Backstroke, it may remain there.
In the sequence below, #7, the Hips are out of alignment both Forward and front to back resulting in severe Axis Tilt and a Clubhead that rises above the Plane at Impact and Follow-through.
This Faulty Axis Tilt prevents his Left Hip from Turning as much as it needs. This Blocks his right hip from moving forward and forces it out toward the Plane Line too early. This prevents his right shoulder from continuing Down-Plane and Forward.
He may need to do this to get all of the distance he possibly can but imagine what it does to accuracy.
This Faulty Pivot really screws with Low Point, the Right Elbow, Impact Hand Location, Right Shoulder Location and Path, etc, etc.
Quote:
As I said, I was hitting the ball from my knees almost as far (and certainly as solidly) as I did while standing, and, in my prime, I consistently finished in the top 10 percent in driving distance while on tour. Don't forget, I was using a persimmon-headed, steel-shafted driver and a wound balata ball, let alone with no feet or legs!
The point here is, that, instead of driving my swing bottom forward and thus creating lag with my feet and legs, I relied on establishing a clear, forward-aiming point well out in front of my ball, and an aggressive forward shoulder and torso hip-turning motion to create the lag in my swing. Think of it this way: Because a club swung from the knees travels on a far more horizontal, or level-to-the-ground, arc than does one swung while standing up, the bottom, or low point, of such a swing also extends considerably more forward of the ball. Because this makes it easy to swing the club downward through and past the golf ball after impact, such a swing facilitates very solid contact as well. Certainly, it takes some time to get used to the initially awkward posture and geometry of hitting balls from the knees, but once done, you can really pound a golf ball that way.
Needless to say, the feet and legs add extra speed to the golf swing; but they become useless if they don't carry the hips and shoulders forward, to sustain the lag through the impact zone. I credit my efficient lag, created from the hips and shoulders, for driving the ball 250 yards, straight down the fairway. That means the feet and legs only had an additional 15 to 20 yards to give…….
The Impact Zone , Bobbie Clampett, Page 93
Bobby shows some of the same Pivot issues.
Having your head that far back keeps your shoulders that far back too. I bet his head doesn't move when he hits from his knees.
Hybrid Mode
