swinging and hitting

[BerntR]

The thread you linked to HB certainly sustains the line of confusion.

HK defined Centrifugal Force as The effort of the swinging clubhead to pull the Primary Lever Assembly into a straight line) So far so good.

Everyone who read TGM and says that Centrifugal Force isn't really a force is correct. But HK wasn't wrong either. HK's definition brings the term 100% inline with general physics. But something important is left out of the picture.

HK's Centrifugal Force is just inertia. The moving mass wants to move on a straight line. That's all centrifugal force is about. It takes a real force in the other end pull the primary lever straight. This is Centripetal Force. Centripetal force pulls the moving mass towards the swing center so the mass moves in a circle. If there's any slack (out of line conditions) involved they will seek their inline condition.

Centripetal Force is essential to understand the physics involved in the golf stroke. You guys should look it up. It is the mother of circular motions. It is a force that doesn't do any work whatsoever. It changes the direction of the speed. But it doesn't create any speed.

Imagine a pole with a rope attached at the top, and in the other end there is a tennis ball. You hit the tennis ball with a racket (that would be linear force). Thereafter the tennis ball will spin by itself for a long time. If there weren't any friction involved it would spin forever. That spinning shows the nature of centripetal force.

Centripetal Force is the force that turns a straight motion into a circular motion. It's incredible important in the golf stroke. To include centrifugal force and not include centripetal force in TGM as HK did was a blunder, IMO.

When you use your pressure points and levers in the swing, the total pressure will partly be centripetal and partly linear. Needless to say, the left arm will usually carry a major part of the Centripetal Force. But it will also carry linear force. It is unavoidable for geometrical reasons.

But don't believe for a second that a swinger has more centripetal force than a hitter. The hitter basically rotates the club as much as the swinger. The amount of centripetal force involved will basically be a function of the swing speed and swing radius at any point. Swinging or hitting doesn't make much of a difference here.

Since centripetal force doesn't produce any swing speed, hitters and swinngers need linear force to do that. The linear forces are delivered through both hands. As Daryl said: One side is pulling from ahead and the other side is pushing from behind. Hitters and swingers need equal amounts of work produced by linear force to produce equal swing speed. Just remember that the real forces we apply are partly linear and partly centripetal.

"So what about the release? It sure does create a lot of swing speed. Effortless power".

The throwout enables the golfer to apply linear force to the club while maintaining a comfortable shoulder turn speed and hands speed. Enables her to add speed to a fast moving club with slow moving hands.

If the club were release without any application of linear force the clubhead would have the same swing speed as before, measured in MPH. The rotational speed would be reduced since the swing radius was increased. But this is only a hypothetical scenario. By the time of the release, the pivot and the hands already have worked themselves up to certain speeds. The golfers has no intentions of quitting, but rather to fight against the slowdown. So you push and pull hard. Linear forces delivered from both hands.

It is linear forces delivered through the hands that produces all the swing speed. The L in G.O.L.F. Centrifugal force and Centripetal force only optimises the geometrical conditions for an efficient linear thrust.

Even the purest of swings use linear force to produce speed. And even the most hardheaded hitter is "forced" to benefit from a significant amount of throwout and Centripetal force in the stroke.

And the rope - the left arm pulling - carries linear force and centripetal force for hitters and swingers.

[HungryBear]

The thread you linked to HB certainly sustains the line of confusion.

...............
saving bandwidth its all above
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And the rope - the left arm pulling - carries linear force and centripetal force for hitters and swingers.

I think I see your main point. I also think it is well covered by HK. as "LAG". and by YODA. "Drag That Wet Mop" and by many a pro who will tell you they "hit real hard through impact". The club rotates about the hands, after trigger, and the hands clamp the shaft (in a perfect pinned joint if possible) providing centripital force BUT the hands have an on plane speed which takes effort to maintain. That effort is key.

Thats my interpretation of your interpretation of HK interpretation of Newtons interpretation. (Chain reaction producing great speed.)

The Bear

[Daryl]

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/...n_and_Velocity

[HungryBear]

Trying to think of an every day way to explain.
The Hurricane- a weather forcaster will always tell U that the winds on the right side of a moving hurricane are more dangerous because they are additive. The hurricane is spinning counter-clockwise with the wind speed constant relative to a center- the centripital force part so to say. BUT if the center- the eye of the hurricane (Golfers hands)-is moving in a linear direction (like the plane line)- the wind on the right side (club head) is moving at the constant velocity PLUS the speed of the eye hands. BUT since the energy of the hands was "sucked out" when the linear downstroke became circular more energy must be put in to keep the system moving forward LAG- "drag that mop" or - just quit with your hands and hang on and let the club coast around- most people do it that way- it can be made to look pretty good and you can now use all that energy to try and move the curved part faster- and you dont need much of a pivot because that moves the system- just flip it out there at the ball, and hang on.
I was trying for a little humor in the last lines-not funny but I try hard.

The Bear

You guys down under-because your cyclones go the other way- "just transpose like the E-flat trumpet player" unless you are also a lefty.
Which reminds me- I/we have neglected coriolis effect- Go ahead I dare you!!

[O.B.Left]

Trying to think of an every day way to explain.
The Hurricane- a weather forcaster will always tell U that the winds on the right side of a moving hurricane are more dangerous because they are additive. The hurricane is spinning counter-clockwise with the wind speed constant relative to a center- the centripital force part so to say. BUT if the center- the eye of the hurricane (Golfers hands)-is moving in a linear direction (like the plane line)- the wind on the right side (club head) is moving at the constant velocity PLUS the speed of the eye hands. BUT since the energy of the hands was "sucked out" when the linear downstroke became circular more energy must be put in to keep the system moving forward LAG- "drag that mop" or - just quit with your hands and hang on and let the club coast around- most people do it that way- it can be made to look pretty good and you can now use all that energy to try and move the curved part faster- and you dont need much of a pivot because that moves the system- just flip it out there at the ball, and hang on.
I was trying for a little humor in the last lines-not funny but I try hard.

The Bear

You guys down under-because your cyclones go the other way- "just transpose like the E-flat trumpet player" unless you are also a lefty.
Which reminds me- I/we have neglected coriolis effect- Go ahead I dare you!!

Only with City's help can we get from this post to line dancing in four easy posts. This might be some sort of record.

Daryl, if you're going to take up line dancing you'd better get outa those yoga stretch tights.......please.

[Daryl]

Only with City's help can we get from this post to line dancing in four easy posts. This might be some sort of record.

Daryl, if you're going to take up line dancing you'd better get outa those yoga stretch tights.......please.

What should I wear then? A cowboy hat and boots? This is why I don't line dance, frequent red neck bars or watch Nascar.

[innercityteacher]

What should I wear then? A cowboy hat and boots? This is why I don't line dance, frequent red neck bars or watch Nascar.

I went to a bachelor party in Atlantic city, last night, and it could not be avoided. It did give me time to think, while driving home, about Monitoring the FLW, whether swinging or hitting, on every shot!

By "putting my mind in my hands," I get to preview what the club face and therefore ball will do. No surprises. If I extend both arms straight in front of me at eye level and bend my right elbow to clap I can repeat the motion endlessly. (I can feel a conflation of threads coming on.)

So that is Drive loading, friend of hitters, switters and everyone else that punches the ball around the course.

Another benefit of drive loading is that with shorter clubs, you have the simplest golf swing amounting to a "point and shoot" mechanism with the club designed to clack into the ball and produce the beautiful ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sound.

But with longer clubs, the line becomes blurred:

(OB quote from above)
Or you can separate them sequentially in your Downswing, which is what I do.....Drag then Drive . A Right Shoulder Throw (slow and easy one) which tends to Delay Release, followed by a Right Arm Throw which induces Release. You can go to End when doing this if you wish. But this isnt 12-1 anymore of course.

Now, the line is blurred for me, not for OB or Daryl or anyone else with mad TGM skills. I interpret this "Right Shoulder Throw" (RST) as a turning sternum or "shoulder up," or"spin the flywheel" move that is normally thought of as a swinging/switter move. But if I have been favored with a moment of lucidity after multiple "Pina Coladas" last night, the RST can be used by the hitter, slowly and deliberately, to aim and shoot as Lynn does in Alignment I.

So, now I want to make another guess about bio-mechanics and the three types of ball-striking (hit, swit, swing (HSS)). RFT/EA turns the back hip enough to set-up a good pass at the ball. Does slow RST turn the front hip by itself enough to enable HSS to happen automatically? Or, doe you still have to yell at your Pivot to "get a move on" prior to RST?

I hope I have partially repaired this fine thread.


YBGF