O.K., so if you hold your left arm out, inclined, and hold your left hand/wrist vertical, and swing your arm back, and then swing back through the impact zone, keeping the arm on the inclined plane, then if the hand/wrist stays square/vertical to the inclined plane, then this is angled hinging? Obviously, the hand represents the clubface. And to fairly evaluate the hinge action of the arm itself, then the wrist should not rotate (pronate/supinate) independently. Here's my "issue". The left arm doesn't naturally swing on an inclined plane without rolling. So to produce angled hinging with no wrist rotation, the left arm would have to be consciously rolled in reverse to offset the natural roll. Or adding the wrist, the wrist would have to be reverse-rolled. Why would we even recognize that as an option since it is so "un-natural"?
Now you can easily produce swing of the shaft on an inclined plane with no clubface roll using only the wrist... ideally with a strong grip. But as soon as arm swing and body rotation is added, there "should" be clubface rotation on the plane.
My understanding of clubface roll on the plane is gleaned primarily from "Search For The Perfect Swing", which explains that about 60* of clubface rotation in the backswing occurs naturally from the arm swing and shoulder turn. 30* of independent wrist roll added will rotate the clubface to the "traditional" parallel to the plane position at the top. But that can be partially or totally eliminated at the option of the player. Either way, the clubface will need to rotate on the plane to return to vertical at impact, and as a result, will continue to rotate on the plane after impact. With less wrist roll, the rate of clubface roll is slowed. These scenarios, I assume, are horizontal hinging.
Now I really do want to fully understand TGM hinge action and how I can add to my understanding of the "normal" possibilities. What am I missing? And how in the world do you produce vertical hinging?
O.K., so if you hold your left arm out, inclined, and hold your left hand/wrist vertical, and swing your arm back, and then swing back through the impact zone, keeping the arm on the inclined plane, then if the hand/wrist stays square/vertical to the inclined plane, then this is angled hinging? Obviously, the hand represents the clubface. And to fairly evaluate the hinge action of the arm itself, then the wrist should not rotate (pronate/supinate) independently. Here's my "issue". The left arm doesn't naturally swing on an inclined plane without rolling. So to produce angled hinging with no wrist rotation, the left arm would have to be consciously rolled in reverse to offset the natural roll. Or adding the wrist, the wrist would have to be reverse-rolled. Why would we even recognize that as an option since it is so "un-natural"?
Hey Max welcome to LBG
Yes I can see your point. But what happens when you swing the right arm? Id suggest its different, that it tends to not roll, "naturally". And so you have different hinge actions associated "naturally" with the left and right side dominated actions.
Why would you do this? It is a natural product of Hitting which can be compensated for at address by slightly closing the face to offset the slip and lost compression. Also Angled Hinging approaches Horizontal Hinging in characteristics as the plane angle approaches Horizontal. And vice versa as it approaches a truly vertical plane.
The 60/30 degree relationship you referenced is very limiting. While in the mechanical model of 1-L the hinge is mounted at the left shoulder you could recreate the three (basic) hinge actions entirely with just the hands or just the arms or just the body. (with some limitations, dual horizontal for instance) So theres a number of possible combinations available. Not all ideal mind you but ........Hinge Actions can be accomplished by any of the "Three Zones". If you're extremely stiff for instance and have a dead pivot you'll get it done with just the arms and hands .......the old man swing.
Another thing to consider is that given any angle at the left hand and club (#3 accumulator, gripping it under the heal pad) the roll you mention will add to the clubheads velocity. Reverse roll will do the opposite and angled neither add nor subtract. So not only is the balls behaviour affected by the variation in layback vs closing but its also affected by the associated changes in clubhead speed inherent in the different hinge actions.
Thanks for the reply, O.B. I see your point about the right arm. I can see how the right arm could thrust without roll. Now, are the 3 hinge actions in reference to the impact interval only? I mean, eventually the clubface has to roll on the plane in a full-power stroke, no?
Thanks for the reply, O.B. I see your point about the right arm. I can see how the right arm could thrust without roll. Now, are the 3 hinge actions in reference to the impact interval only? I mean, eventually the clubface has to roll on the plane in a full-power stroke, no?
Not sure I follow but I believe the answer lies in the difference between Hinge Action and Swivel. Theres a lot of posts on these terms around here if you want to use the search function. But Ill take a stab at it.
Instead of thinking about the clubface rolling onto the plane if you think about the left hand (the one we use for Hinge Action control) it would relate better between the two concepts and be more true to Homers thoughts as well.
Hinge Action is a holding of the left hand perpendicular to one of the three Basic Planes (the ground or the horizontal basic plane, a wall or the vertical basic plane or any inclined plane in between those two extremes, an angled basic plane) . So assume you're employing Horizontal on the way back .....you keep your left hand perpendicular to the ground ........which is fine and dandy to a point, but to get from there over to the inclined plane you have to depart from this aligned rolling , you gotta get your left palm pointing down to the ground a bit right? Im thinking that's the Swivel onto the plane. Its a rolling that is not aligned to a basic plane that "swivels" the left hand onto the inclined plane......3 times during the swing. It the bridge between the Inclined Plane and Hinge Action.
So yes the Hinge Action is employed throughout the impact interval. Swivel gets the hand onto the inclined plane. There's different feels associated with different Hinge Actions ........Homer's idea was to learn the feels associated with these different alignments and then use feel to play the game. Practice the mechanics, play by feel. The translation of mechanics to feel. etc.
Never thought of it in those terms before but ......maybe thats an easy way to describe things . Somebody once told me it takes five years to understand hinge action, Im only about three years in so.....
From impact, does the body(center of the chest) pivot with the left arm to follow through?
Depends on the pattern and the accumulators used, but yes it is far more consistent a pattern IMO if the hands and chest move through impact together as 'result'. That is the only possible way to justify saying hinge action is somewhere other than zone 3 (which is another topic all together, and one not appropriate in this thread)
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
The next step in understanding hinge action is to understand how the right arm's motion effects the rate of clubface closing.
Until you can get that, it is easy to confuse hinge action and swivel.
For a swinger, using standard wrist action, the release swivel puts the face back to perpendicular to the plane, but the rate of closing, the rhythm, is determined by the straighting right arm (no matter if that is a motion caused by the pivot's throw out, or an action caused by the right tricepts thrust)
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Can hinge action be summed like so...
Horizontal= clubface closes to the inclined plane
Angled= clubface stays perpendicular to the inclined
Vertical=clubface opens on the inclined plane
?
Can hinge action be summed like so...
Horizontal= clubface closes to the inclined plane
Angled= clubface stays perpendicular to the inclined
Vertical=clubface opens on the inclined plane
?
A lot of people have reduced it to this perhaps but it lacks precision. Which can be the difference between a par save and a bogey. So Id say the answer is no. You're close but its worth the effort to fully understand the alignments.
Get a ping pong paddle and stick it in your left hand and try moving it back and forth while keeping it (the paddle) perpendicular to one of the three basic planes. You'll notice also that your left hand grip can be a little turned on the paddle's handle like it would for a common golf grip. Thats a good thing, thats ok just watch the paddle, keep it as the de facto left hand. Watch the paddle , then make the same motion without the paddle and watch the left hand (still turned its the new flat or perpendicular).
You've got a good guy here in EdZ......he's got some insight on this business. You could search this using his name or Yoda's. You could buy the Alignment Golf c.d., you could check out the free videos which cover this. There are some animations somewhere....
Dont give up till you can reproduce the three hinge actions......with little chips or pitches (Basic or Acquired Motion) and then from the three ball positions (Forward, Back and Middle) and the different plane lines..... and the different face angles (open , square , closed). By this point you're going to feel Phil Mickelson good with your short shots and your long game'll seem way easier. But even then there's being able to do it Hitting or Swinging......and then the different minor basic strokes within each .....the Pull, the Paw, the Push , the Bat etc ..........this is the road to mastering the game, to having a masters level of execution and precision.
It all about precision , precision alignments reproduced by the associated feel.
Can hinge action be summed like so...
Horizontal= clubface closes to the inclined plane
Angled= clubface stays perpendicular to the inclined
Vertical=clubface opens on the inclined plane
?
Hybrid Mode
