Why are they called "New Ball Flight Laws"? Will there be a "New and Improved Ball Flight Laws" introduced in the near future? Is there a term "Old Ball Flight Laws"? Who named the "Original" Ball Flight Laws - "Ball Flight Laws"?
Shouldn't we try to understand all of the "Laws" that affect Ball Flight? Has someone outlined "All of the Laws" that are included in the new "Ball Flight Laws"? There can't be more than a dozen. Is anyone willing to jot them down and Post them?
If we eliminate the Plane Line from the equation, it "becomes" OK to swing "Over the Top" as long as a compensating Clubface Angle exists when the ball is struck. I suppose a teacher can tell the student "Hey, those are the new Laws, live with it". ??
One thing is becoming increasingly clear to me. "Trackman" uses a whole lot of calculations but doesn't measure target Alignment. It doesn't measure the Players set-up nor does it determine if the Player is Swinging On-Plane. I'd say that eliminating the Plane line from the equation is pretty convenient for "Trackman".
One thing is becoming increasingly clear to me. "Trackman" uses a whole lot of calculations but doesn't measure target Alignment. It doesn't measure the Players set-up nor does it determine if the Player is Swinging On-Plane. I'd say that eliminating the Plane line from the equation is pretty convenient for "Trackman".
A few things.
The day any human lines the club face accurately to a target over 100 yards away will be the day.
The day any human can line up parallel to anything using their own perceptions will be the day.
The machine is aimed at a target.
What's the margin for error due to pixel size is a valid one?
I don't know the answer to that but I've asked.
You'd also be incorrect in that Trackman doesn't measure a plane line.
It measures(not calculates) it relative to the target that the machine was aimed at.
JG
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Last edited by John Graham : 10-23-2010 at 05:33 PM.
It may be aligned down the target line but the day that Trackman can measure the Alignment of the Swing Plane and draw the Base Line of that Inclined Plane is the day I buy one. I'll buy two of them. No more golf instructors.
I'm saying that if it could measure and Plot the Orbit of the Center of Gravity of the Clubhead and Sweetspot Plane, then overlay that onto the Target Line, we won't need Golf Instructors anymore. We may need Psychologists to convince us to get off the Golf Course once in a while. We will also need Marriage Councilors.
If it was somehow possible to connect that gizmo to the Golfing Machine some chicks voice might say something like "Please use a little more #4 Power Accumulator". I could live with that.
It may be aligned down the target line but the day that Trackman can measure the Alignment of the Swing Plane and draw the Base Line of that Inclined Plane is the day I buy one. I'll buy two of them. No more golf instructors.
I'm saying that if it could measure and Plot the Orbit of the Center of Gravity of the Clubhead and Sweetspot Plane, then overlay that onto the Target Line, we won't need Golf Instructors anymore. We may need Psychologists to convince us to get off the Golf Course once in a while. We will also need Marriage Councilors.
If it was somehow possible to connect that gizmo to the Golfing Machine some chicks voice might say something like "Please use a little more #4 Power Accumulator". I could live with that.
You're joking right?
Get your wallet out and while you've got it out, I'd like one too please.
That's exactly what it does.
In fact the next version, will actually draw the lines on video for those with a poor imagination.
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Last edited by John Graham : 10-24-2010 at 11:37 AM.
Supposedly, books used by The PGA of America, in the past, stated, that the Clubhead Path was responsible for the starting direction of the ball's flight. Path was one of 5 "Ball Flight Laws". When folks talk about the so-called "new" Ball Flight Laws, there are referring to this one. Except that the science showing that the ball starts between the Path and Clubface, when the two are not square during collision, is not "new" at all. It was clearly shown in "Search For The Perfect Swing" from 1968.
Also, "Search" did show that a small misalignment from square of the Clubface to Path would create a rather prominent curve. It was clear that the Path direction would have to be aligned farther from the target than the Clubface was misaligned to the Path. But we really didn't know how much. We have a better idea now, thanks to TrackMan. As a general "Rule of Thumb", the Path should be aligned TWICE as far from the Target as the Clubface is misaligned to the Path. MORE when loft is less, like with driver.
TrackMan is wonderful and anyone wanting to learn more should read all of their newsletters on their website. It truly does "locate" the inclined plane. The Plane Line is termed Horizontal Swing Plane and is measured in degrees to the Target Line, which is user-specified. But TrackMan is not the first or only machine to measure Path and Clubface angle. In fact, TM doesn't actually "measure" Clubface, but rather, deduces it from other measured conditions. P3PRO can actually measure Clubface, with Path and Angle of Attack as well, for under a grand. I can tell you what the swing plane is with my V1 video analysis software. But I do want a TrackMan.
Supposedly, books used by The PGA of America, in the past, stated, that the Clubhead Path was responsible for the starting direction of the ball's flight. Path was one of 5 "Ball Flight Laws". When folks talk about the so-called "new" Ball Flight Laws, there are referring to this one. Except that the science showing that the ball starts between the Path and Clubface, when the two are not square during collision, is not "new" at all. It was clearly shown in "Search For The Perfect Swing" from 1968.
Also, "Search" did show that a small misalignment from square of the Clubface to Path would create a rather prominent curve. It was clear that the Path direction would have to be aligned farther from the target than the Clubface was misaligned to the Path. But we really didn't know how much. We have a better idea now, thanks to TrackMan. As a general "Rule of Thumb", the Path should be aligned TWICE as far from the Target as the Clubface is misaligned to the Path. MORE when loft is less, like with driver.
TrackMan is wonderful and anyone wanting to learn more should read all of their newsletters on their website. It truly does "locate" the inclined plane. The Plane Line is termed Horizontal Swing Plane and is measured in degrees to the Target Line, which is user-specified. But TrackMan is not the first or only machine to measure Path and Clubface angle. In fact, TM doesn't actually "measure" Clubface, but rather, deduces it from other measured conditions. P3PRO can actually measure Clubface, with Path and Angle of Attack as well, for under a grand. I can tell you what the swing plane is with my V1 video analysis software. But I do want a TrackMan.
Thank you Max,
I think V1 is a real teachers tool.
I've never read the old laws but they don't seem to be Laws. I would like to study them anyway to find out where the glitch was.
I've studied "Search" for many years and keep a copy by my desk.
One thing we know for certain is that curving the ball is a matter of Clubface/Path and many other things, some more important than others.
But John says "The day any human lines the club face accurately to a target over 100 yards away will be the day." That's true if we're aiming at a pinpoint but it's not so bad when we're aiming at a zone. The same reality is true for someone aligning the clubface to a path he hasn't yet created. And that seems to be the procedure with the new Ball Flight Laws. My TGM Swing Pattern Alignments have never let me down.
But we have experience on our side and can adjust our Plane, Ball Position and Target Line fairly accurately.
TrackMan is wonderful and anyone wanting to learn more should read all of their newsletters on their website. It truly does "locate" the inclined plane. The Plane Line is termed Horizontal Swing Plane and is measured in degrees to the Target Line, which is user-specified. But TrackMan is not the first or only machine to measure Path and Clubface angle. In fact, TM doesn't actually "measure" Clubface, but rather, deduces it from other measured conditions. P3PRO can actually measure Clubface, with Path and Angle of Attack as well, for under a grand. I can tell you what the swing plane is with my V1 video analysis software. But I do want a TrackMan.
[Font enhancements by Yoda.]
In 1969, when conventional wisdom screamed that "Clubhead Path" determines the initial direction of the Ball, Homer Kelley published The Golfing Machine and said "No. It is the Clubface."
Today, Mr. Kelley is lauded as being both correct and well ahead of his time. His work done, those of us seeking Golfing Perfection now need only a 'nod' to Path -- downward and outward -- but then look to the Clubface alignment at Impact. In recent weeks, I have been to the top of the TrackMan 'food chain', and they accede that Max Impact's statement is true: Namely, that the Clubface 'at Impact' is not a measured alignment. Instead, it is a derived alignment.
So, please . . .
No more of this nonsense of the Clubface alignment being measured at Impact; or, at Max Compression; or, at Separation.
At least not where TrackMan is concerned.
Why?
Because those measurements do not exist.
I do know that, years ago, the U.S. Bureau of Standards changed their definition -- and physical measurement -- of the Impact Interval from 'point of impact' to 'point of maximum compression'. Why? Because Homer Kelley challenged their published measurements. And they changed.
Today, I know that TM is 'on call' on the practice tee at every PGA TOUR event. If you've been out there a while -- -- you've been there a bunch, and you've seen a bunch. Most important . . .
Know that the guys in the TOUR equipment vans are in the trenches every day. They are on the tee in 'real time', watching their players launch it and making recommendations. It is not unusual for a player to do so perfectly while generating some TM numbers that collectively make no sense. Their players know this, too.
TrackMan is an important input, but in the end, getting the right club into the hands of the player -- pro and amateur alike -- is, indeed, as much art as science. As is delivering competent golf instruction.
Point is . . . in all this stuff . . .
The jury is still out.
Let's find out exactly what is being measured and how.
Then, and only then, will we be able to compare "apples with apples".
Hybrid Mode
