I'm worried that this thread is going to end in an abyss of misunderstanding by introducing the "CP Release".
[list=1][*]The term "CP Release" was coined by Mac O'Grady.[*]It was invented out of a couple of necessities, but foremost, I think it stems from thinking that TGM "Passive Right Arm" means a "Limp and inactive Right Forearm". Which isn't true.
Great post, Daryl. I think a lot of the CP arguments against TGM is based on a biased TGM interpretation and not necessarily valid for TGM in general.
I agree with most of what you say here and you do a fine job at translating it to TGM terms.
But I don't agree the with the flavor you add to Hogan's stroke. The compensation part.
There are a lot of ways to release the club. One method is to launch the hands from the shoulder (the Accumulator #4 blast-off) and later fire the primary lever from the hands. A sort of biokinetic chain reaction with a rapid overtaking by the lagging component over the leading component. And a very sequenced way of striking the ball. And finished off with a very outspoken finish swivel. Another way is to keep the hands and pivot on the same angular speed and basically release the club with and from the pivot. The relationship between the pivot and the hands are then much more simultaneous and less sequenced than when you fire Accumulator #4 early.
In real worlds strokes we're probably talking shades of grey here and not black and white. But the difference between Hogan and VJ Sing isn't small in that regard.
I don't believe that any good golf stroke has a Right Shoulder location that thrusts the Right Hand on plane. They all need to thrust under plane to keep the Hand on plane.
First of all, on all videos I've seen the Right Shoulder is always in the process of turning over the hand path and not in the process of tracing the hand path. Second, a right shoulder that thrusts on plane plus a club that is thrown out due to CF plus arms that are attached to the pivot above the geometrical swing center will move the hands and the clubhead above the plane. Unless you also pull your hands towards the body to fight the CF that the club impose on your hands.
I believe that all good strokes have a thrust line from the Right Shoulder through the Right Hand that support the required hand path, included CF flyaway prevention. At least for a while. There may be ABS type motorized hinges, torquing wrists and all kinds of active hands and arms and wrists activities going on that isn't visible on the surface but still make a difference. But the push from the shoulder through PP #1 and PP#3 is just too important to be misaligned regardless of stroke pattern.
In the first type of release - the sequenced action - the shoulder to hand relationship will become gradually more outwards and forward as the arms are blast off the chest and move out from the pivot.
In the second type - where you don't blast the Left Arm off the chest your thrust from the Right Shoulder will be more downward as the hands get more underneath the shoulder. The covering shoulder as Bucket put it. The line of thrust will become more vertical and more supporting of a CP hand path - a "swing left" hand path if you wish. It will prevent the Hands from flying out.
IMO, the "swinging left" pattern has a lot to do with Accumulator #4 application and timing.
I agree that the fade partly explains what we see in Hogan's stroke, but it doesn't explane the difference between Hogan and Monty - or Freddie, just to mention a couple of great golfer that could fade the ball as good as anyone with a very different procedure from Hogan's.
Well, here we go. Thank you Fladan for your impressive examination of CP and CF Release.
My comments about the CP Release came from an interview between Ralph Perez of Gothom Golf Blog and John "Lagpressure" Erikson on January 1, 2011 just a few days ago. During the interview, "Lagpressure" credited O'Grady with coining the Term CP Release. However, my explanation of CP is taken from the Interview which reflects the way "Lagpressure" uses the Terms and the intent of the procedures. If anyone hasn't viewed the interview, then do so if you'd like at http://www.gothamgolfblog.com. If I remember correctly, go to minute 35:30 in Part one and when viewing Part 2, begin at the beginning. This should lead you directly to the issue at hand because he explains CP Release as used by Himself and in his Coaching.
I don't have a problem understanding John Eriksons point of view or the Terms as he uses them and I don't disagree with what he's trying to do with the procedure. My comments stem from people thinking that the Right Forearm is passive Limpy in TGM and as soon as someone begins Driving the Forearm, they think that they've discovered something new. My comments about the CP procedure as used and taught by "Lagpressure" being a "compensation" are correct from a TGM point of view. The Right Forearm must return to the Angle of Approach and if you don't, then going Left with your shoulder turn is a "real" solution.
John Erikson had a great interview and talked a lot about his Tour Experience and it's always interesting and fun to listen to and I would recommend it to everyone.
I think a lot of the CP arguments against TGM is based on a biased TGM interpretation and not necessarily valid for TGM in general.
I agree, BerntR.
The same is true of most arguments "against" Homer Kelley and his work. Here's the way the fraud goes down:
A perpetrator establishes the "strawman" argument, i.e., a misrepresentation of The Golfing Machine. He then proceeds to attack it, in one or more of at least five creative ways, and thereby "wins" the battle -- at least in his own mind (and perhaps in the minds of his followers). His argument is fallacious, of course, because only the misrepresentation is being attacked, not the actual work.
Hybrid Mode
