Standard Shoulder Turn....Flat Back/On Plane combo. One great description of this was from Ted Fort (aka Yoda's Luke) . Imagine your Right Shoulder being a paint brush that paints a "7" in the air......flat back and then down the plane, diagonally. Like a 7 when you look back at what your shoulder is painting. If you know what I mean. So its not describing the same motion back and down, two different motions, directionally. Its a bit counter intuitive I know, but its a bit of genius, cant tell you how much this has helped me. And upon investigation we do this sort of thing all day long, doing all sorts of motions. We direct our Hands and the Pivot responds.
To answer the question in your P.S. The Right Shoulder can only go down the Inclined Plane if its on the Inclined Plane at Top to begin with. Making for a TSP plane angle by definition, a Plane ( from Hands to Base Line) that also runs through the Turned Right Shoulder at Top. So the Right Shoulder is doing both ......down plane motion and supporting, directly pulling the Hands in Startdown. Made necessary by the Downstroke Sequence where you let your Pivot pull the inert Hands, Arms in Startdown. Since your Pivot (right shoulder) is pulling it best be pulling somewhere, ideally at the Plane LIne given that the Hands are going to follow it directly , linearly.
If I had a scanner down here (im on vacation) id do some drawings . Hmm maybe Ill try photo'ing something with my phone....
The first part is good. condition #3 is met by the 7 image. Both the backstroke and downstroke must intersect at the point of the 7 which must be precisely located so the downstroke plane is parallel to the plane line otherwise compensations are required.
The second part- I believe that HK "prefers" the shoulder move on the same plane as the hands- 7-13 paragraph #2. This is logical as all energy to the club flows through the hands. therefore any "off plane" to the hands will be dangerous.
The second part- I believe that HK "prefers" the shoulder move on the same plane as the hands- 7-13 paragraph #2. This is logical as all energy to the club flows through the hands. therefore any "off plane" to the hands will be dangerous.
HB
I think we're saying the same thing here maybe cause that only happens when their both on the same plane, ie when the Right Shoulder is on the Inclined Plane in Startdown (TSP by definition). Startdown the period of Shoulder of Acceleration by definition. Hands are always on the Inclined Plane , if the Right Shoulders gets on it too at Top...you got a TSP angle of which there is a range I suppose.
I tried doing a few drawings, when you get into all the parameters , TSP, Flat vs Rotated , zero or single or double shift.......it gets messy. Need to do them to proper scale to make the implications to shaft angle at impact, waste bend clear and relevant. Hard to do on the beach.... But they would describe TGM's Standard Shoulder Turn , S and T Rotated/? Double Shift and I was looking at Matt Kuchar there in pencil form too on one of them.
Im thinking this'd be a good thing to doodle out .....the photos in the book are great but some simple stick men that would also combine the various related components (TSP, Standard Shoulder Turn, Zero Shift or minimal a shift) would make for a nice presentation of one of Homers most brilliant ideas....... Maybe we could Yoda to offer an opinion to make sure we're book compliant. One thing though .....I dont think you can do it with a hanky under your arms. You need independent arm motion (independent of the PIvot).
In any event .....Why is the Alignment Golf Shoulder Turn "Flat" on the backswing (only, not on the way down)? To try to get the Right Shoulder over to the Elbow Plane or as close to it as is possible. So as not to necessitate a shift of any large degree during the Downswing. Final final answer. And of note. Just because the Right Shoulder turns Flat does not mean the Hands are going back flat given Independent Arm Motion. A free connection where the Arms meet the Shoulders (Pivot). Right Shoulder turns IN, Hands go UP , but they meet up on a TSP and share a ride down the Inclined Plane..
I keep saying that bit.....its the brilliant result of these component combinations, this pattern. Genius. That or Im totally crazy.....or both I suppose, if you want to catalogue all the possibilities , Homer would.
Homer listed TSP for the Plane Angle, Zero Shift and Standard Shoulder turn for both Basic Patterns of 12-1 and 2. You can argue whether Zero is really possible but assuming minimal shift as a goal anyways ........He was clear in his preferences and from my experience Id have to say he's correct. Very correct. But not commonly understood maybe? Its too bad, it'd be revolutionary and its already 40 years old. That said you do have options.....not saying Double Shift is not workable.
I think we're saying the same thing here maybe cause that only happens when their both on the same plane, ie when the Right Shoulder is on the Inclined Plane in Startdown (TSP by definition). Startdown the period of Shoulder of Acceleration by definition. Hands are always on the Inclined Plane , if the Right Shoulders gets on it too at Top...you got a TSP angle of which there is a range I suppose.
I tried doing a few drawings, when you get into all the parameters , TSP, Flat vs Rotated , zero or single or double shift.......it gets messy. Need to do them to proper scale to make the implications to shaft angle at impact, waste bend clear and relevant. Hard to do on the beach.... But they would describe TGM's Standard Shoulder Turn , S and T Rotated/? Double Shift and I was looking at Matt Kuchar there in pencil form too on one of them.
Im thinking this'd be a good thing to doodle out .....the photos in the book are great but some simple stick men that would also combine the various related components (TSP, Standard Shoulder Turn, Zero Shift or minimal a shift) would make for a nice presentation of one of Homers most brilliant ideas....... Maybe we could Yoda to offer an opinion to make sure we're book compliant. One thing though .....I dont think you can do it with a hanky under your arms. You need independent arm motion (independent of the PIvot).
In any event .....Why is the Alignment Golf Shoulder Turn "Flat" on the backswing (only, not on the way down)? To try to get the Right Shoulder over to the Elbow Plane or as close to it as is possible. So as not to necessitate a shift of any large degree during the Downswing. Final final answer. And of note. Just because the Right Shoulder turns Flat does not mean the Hands are going back flat given Independent Arm Motion. A free connection where the Arms meet the Shoulders (Pivot). Right Shoulder turns IN, Hands go UP , but they meet up on a TSP and share a ride down the Inclined Plane..
I keep saying that bit.....its the brilliant result of these component combinations, this pattern. Genius. That or Im totally crazy.....or both I suppose, if you want to catalogue all the possibilities , Homer would.
Homer listed TSP for the Plane Angle, Zero Shift and Standard Shoulder turn for both Basic Patterns of 12-1 and 2. You can argue whether Zero is really possible but assuming minimal shift as a goal anyways ........He was clear in his preferences and from my experience Id have to say he's correct. Very correct. But not commonly understood maybe? Its too bad, it'd be revolutionary and its already 40 years old. That said you do have options.....not saying Double Shift is not workable.
The downstroke subject is moving well beyond the Back-stroke question this thread is based on. Therefore, and also because I have learned over time that any perception of challenge to established dogma never has a good end. Perhaps, we can return to it at a different time in another, more appropriate thread.
Hybrid Mode
