Eldrick Picture..good?bad? depends?

[brianid]

Brianid it ain't about strength! The reason why he would dig intothe ground is because at address his shoulder to ball radius is x amount and then he drops down which would make him dig under ground the exact amount he dropped unless he makes a series of compensating moves.

By strength I mean the need for it to be able to close the face via PA3. The more PA3 angle you have, it's more difficult to close the face, hence more strength you need.

I think the shortening of the shoulder to ball radius is not a fault, but a compensation for having a left wrist that is uncoocked more than level at setup (sorry, his left wrist is not level at setup/impact fix), and then having a level and flat left wrist at impact. If he doesn't "dip", he will whiff the ball, not hit the ground.

[Mike O]

Ed,
You know that your Doctor said not to remove the neck brace until February! Now knock it off!

[whip]

By strength I mean the need for it to be able to close the face via PA3. The more PA3 angle you have, it's more difficult to close the face, hence more strength you need.

I think the shortening of the shoulder to ball radius is not a fault, but a compensation for having a left wrist that is uncoocked more than level at setup (sorry, his left wrist is not level at setup/impact fix), and then having a level and flat left wrist at impact. If he doesn't "dip", he will whiff the ball, not hit the ground.

to be perfectly clear no matter how many pros drop their head in the downswing, and no matter how many so-called golf swing experts think it is an asset and will tell you 'it's ok look the pros do it!' it is ALWAYS a fault!!! You will hit the ball better by keeping your head in the same place guaranteed, nuff said. Sorry brianid you are very mistaken, tiger has anything but an uncocked left wrist at setup in reality he has the complete opposite, his wrists In a cocked position because of his low hands setup has both Wrists in a cocked position and both arms straight another common fault seen on the PGA tour, common as the head drop neither of these things are helping there golf swings, rather they play well despite these faults because of RAW TALENT AND BALL- HITTING SKILL just as players in previous eras were sliding the knees all around trying to get "leg Drive" this wasn't helping them, they were playing well despite it.

[MizunoJoe]

to be perfectly clear no matter how many pros drop their head in the downswing, and no matter how many so-called golf swing experts think it is an asset and will tell you 'it's ok look the pros do it!' it is ALWAYS a fault!!! You will hit the ball better by keeping your head in the same place guaranteed, nuff said. Sorry brianid you are very mistaken, tiger has anything but an uncocked left wrist at setup in reality he has the complete opposite, his wrists In a cocked position because of his low hands setup has both Wrists in a cocked position and both arms straight another common fault seen on the PGA tour, common as the head drop neither of these things are helping there golf swings.

I believe these faults also go hand-in-hand(no pun intended) with the current fad of swinging the hands way left, which requires a cocked left wrist through impact in order for the sweetspot to come anywhere close to tracing the plane line. If the left wrist is properly level at impact, swinging way left means a bent plane line.

[12 piece bucket]

I believe these faults also go hand-in-hand(no pun intended) with the current fad of swinging the hands way left, which requires a cocked left wrist through impact in order for the sweetspot to come anywhere close to tracing the plane line. If the left wrist is properly level at impact, swinging way left means a bent plane line.

How is this different from all the trigger delay here?

[MizunoJoe]

How is this different from all the trigger delay here?

Trigger delay?

[12 piece bucket]

Trigger delay?

Ok...you don't like that description....

How is what you said different that what is going on in the picture of Bently J Doyle? Both have the left wrist cocked for a long time...I don't care about debating an understanding of terms....I'm more interested in how what you described as swinging a cocked left wrist to the left and whatever you want to describe Doyle doing here as a different....

Seems to me what Doyle is doing.... what Eldirk is doing.... and what you described are very similar....

If you'd like to explain Trigger Delay to me and then tell me how this other stuff works....I'm ready to learn.

[JTillery]

Bucket, the pivots are the biggest differences. Tiger is way more left than Doyle with almost the same trigger delay/lean/lag/angle/retained wristcock or ulnar deviation. Whichever is now acceptable.

[brianid]

to be perfectly clear no matter how many pros drop their head in the downswing, and no matter how many so-called golf swing experts think it is an asset and will tell you 'it's ok look the pros do it!' it is ALWAYS a fault!!! You will hit the ball better by keeping your head in the same place guaranteed, nuff said. Sorry brianid you are very mistaken, tiger has anything but an uncocked left wrist at setup in reality he has the complete opposite, his wrists In a cocked position because of his low hands setup has both Wrists in a cocked position and both arms straight another common fault seen on the PGA tour, common as the head drop neither of these things are helping there golf swings, rather they play well despite these faults because of RAW TALENT AND BALL- HITTING SKILL just as players in previous eras were sliding the knees all around trying to get "leg Drive" this wasn't helping them, they were playing well despite it.

Are we sure it's in c0cked state at setup, or is it just that the grip/shaft is more across his left hand (more PA3 angle)? IMO, its unc0cked at setup, but he has huge acute angle between his left arm and shaft. That's what I call "built-in lag". At impact, his left wrist is level, so he has to make his left hand lower; hence the head drop.

Plus, isn't the head drop just a consequence of starting the DS with a lower body/hips move, which moves the left hip nearer the target, weight more on left foot/leg, and with intention of keeping the upper body cog or head somewhat fixed, your head has to move down or spine tilt away from target, hence move your head down?

[JTillery]

"Plus, isn't the head drop just a consequence of starting the DS with a lower body/hips move, which moves the left hip nearer the target, weight more on left foot/leg, and with intention of keeping the upper body cog or head somewhat fixed, your head has to move down or spine tilt away from target, hence move your head down?"

This is a good observation. Tigers grip was strengthened, and having a strong and level left wrist is an awkward combo if you haven't tried it. Im not endorsing this theory necessarily, but there is no point of setting the radius via the level left wrist if you have no intention of maintaining that radius, or especially, if you plan to hold the face....then you need it for support. Is that the best plan? who knows, certainly not our LBG way or Homer's way, but that's the defense.
Secondly, Brian is right here....it's impossible for your head not to go down if you shift weight totally to your left leg via hip slide while maintaining a centered head. The more centered the player and less the "leaner" the less you'll see it. (Nicklaus/Gay vs. Nelson/Trevino/D.Johnson). Like it or hate it, the vertical adds snap. Consistent??? Make your own decision, but it's happening everywhere. No one told them to do it until maybe recently. We could put pictures up all day of guy's heads going down then up, down then staying there with lean, barely down and barely up. Hundreds and hundreds of victories and millions and millions of dollars also........kind of hard to call it wrong. In line with TGM, no. Ideal for consistency? you tell me.....but outright wrong?????? Would the other make them better, or would it have made them people you've never heard of? Don't know