When you see that delivery picture of Tiger, why do you guys all see that Tiger has to release thru hitting procedure? You think the only way to nail that ball at that position is ONLY thru a hitting procedure? I don't think so.
IMO Tiger can release that thru PA3. Why do you guys ain't even considering it at all? With PA3 you can accelerate up into peak clubhead speed by impact. At that position of Tiger, PA2's gonna give that PA3 a hard shove, pushing and helping the left wrist to release thru PA3 and accelerate clubhead speed into the ball. With Tiger's strength, he CAN accelerate and reach that peak clubhead speed thru rotationalpower/PA3-based release that's otherwise unreachable by someone of lesser strength and/or if tmain release mechanism is thru velocity power/PA2-based.
Are you guys really not even considering this, or are you avoiding it's discussion for whatever reason?
Mr. Yoda?
NO avoidance here....Eldrick IS NOT Hitting....you can't hit with extreme pitch elbow....
You can talk all this stuff about "release #3 hard"...the point in putting that picture up...forget about all the accumulators etc.....this MAY work for Eldrick....but it sure does look like a WHOLE LOT OF STUFF has to happen in order for the clubface to get on the ball IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME WITH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF SPACE....not saying it can't be done...but sure does look like there would be an easier way...
Critique .... #4 pressure point ABSENT...no accumulators have fired IMO at this point...hands on left thigh....shoulders extremely closed...right toe squashing bugs/butts...spine will be forced to tilt back as a result of the extreme pitch/overlap...Eldrick is certainly ooozing with talent and hits balls 8 hours a day....but does this make sense for "regular" types?
Whoever's mandating these pictures would have a hard time convincing ME to swing this way...but looks like Eldrick is all in....maybe he's learning this from some hairlipped Perkinz waitress....who knows...."we all switch chicks & instructors when we ring the bell."
NO avoidance here....Eldrick IS NOT Hitting....you can't hit with extreme pitch elbow....
You can talk all this stuff about "release #3 hard"...the point in putting that picture up...forget about all the accumulators etc.....this MAY work for Eldrick....but it sure does look like a WHOLE LOT OF STUFF has to happen in order for the clubface to get on the ball IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME WITH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF SPACE....not saying it can't be done...but sure does look like there would be an easier way...
Critique .... #4 pressure point ABSENT...no accumulators have fired IMO at this point...hands on left thigh....shoulders extremely closed...right toe squashing bugs/butts...spine will be forced to tilt back as a result of the extreme pitch/overlap...Eldrick is certainly ooozing with talent and hits balls 8 hours a day....but does this make sense for "regular" types?
Whoever's mandating these pictures would have a hard time convincing ME to swing this way...but looks like Eldrick is all in....maybe he's learning this from some hairlipped Perkinz waitress....who knows...."we all switch chicks & instructors when we ring the bell."
If he's only about to start rolling PA3 at that point, yes it's almost impossible. But ain't he trying to release Before that, and will finally succeed or ACCELERATE at that position. So it's not as hard as it may seem. It's not as if he stopped at that position, he had momentum already before that.
If he's only about to start rolling PA3 at that point, yes it's almost impossible. But ain't he trying to release Before that, and will finally succeed or ACCELERATE at that position. So it's not as hard as it may seem. It's not as if he stopped at that position, he had momentum already before that.
Fine with me...operate your Machine as you see fit...not my bag though.
NO avoidance here....Eldrick IS NOT Hitting....you can't hit with extreme pitch elbow....
You can hit from Pitch perhaps, maybe but why would you want to? Your Right Elbow would have to move back behind the hands very quickly during Release to pull it off. If your intention is to Push , Thrust why Align your Right Elbow in front of the Hands in a Pull position so late in the swing? You've also loaded along the wrong line, Reverse #2 pp against the Top instead of #1PP (and maybe #3pp, Direct Drive) against the Aft.
That said there are these Hitters who get late (ish) with some #2 Angle even but have their Right Elbows positioned to Push or Thrust. Lynn does this I believe. Ive got some photos somewhere. Drag then Drive Hitting. To the casual observer it can look a lot like a swing but it isn't. You've got to look at the Elbow position.
It can be a very elegant Hitting procedure .......or in Arnie's case brutish. That guy was strong. And long.
We're not talking 12-1 any more here ... this isn't Drive Loading. But it is Hitting. If you have 12-1 at one end of the spectrum and 12-2 at the other ......there's a lot of middle ground. But its best to master 12-1 and 2 before moving on . Start off compensation free and pure. Luke did when he re built his swing. Id say it turned out pretty good too..... Didn't take that long either.
You can hit from Pitch perhaps, maybe but why would you want to? Your Right Elbow would have to move back behind the hands very quickly during Release to pull it off. If your intention is to Push , Thrust why Align your Right Elbow in front of the Hands in a Pull position so late in the swing? You've also loaded along the wrong line, Reverse #2 pp against the Top instead of #1PP (and maybe #3pp, Direct Drive) against the Aft.
That said there are these Hitters who get late (ish) with some #2 Angle even but have their Right Elbows positioned to Push or Thrust. Lynn does this I believe. Ive got some photos somewhere. Drag then Drive Hitting. To the casual observer it can look a lot like a swing but it isn't. You've got to look at the Elbow position.
It can be a very elegant Hitting procedure .......or in Arnie's case brutish. That guy was strong. And long.
We're not talking 12-1 any more here ... this isn't Drive Loading. But it is Hitting. If you have 12-1 at one end of the spectrum and 12-2 at the other ......there's a lot of middle ground. But its best to master 12-1 and 2 before moving on . Start off compensation free and pure. Luke did when he re built his swing. Id say it turned out pretty good too..... Didn't take that long either.
How do you square your statements with....
Right Forearm Position at the Top differs for the Angle and Arc of Approach procedures. So their Elbow location and action differs also. For Hitting (10-19-A), the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading Action (7-22) of the entire Primary Lever Assembly (6-A) not just the Clubshaft, and this alignment is maintained through Impact (2-J-3, 4-D). For Swinging (10-19-C) the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading of the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft) and this alignment maintained through Impact. In compliance with both 6-B-3-0-1 and 10-11-0-3. With this “in-line” relationship of Loading and Right Forearm, it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm – not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft – that must be thrown, or driven, into Impact per 7-2-3
Right Forearm Position at the Top differs for the Angle and Arc of Approach procedure. So their Elbow location and action differs also. For Hitting (10-19-A), the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading Action (7-22) of the entire Primary Lever Assembly (6-A) not just the Clubshaft, and this alignment is maintained through Impact (2-J-3, 4-D). For Swinging (10-19-C) the Right Forearm should be precisely in-line with – and directly opposed to – the motion of the On Plane Loading of the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft) and this alignment maintained through Impact. In compliance with both 6-B-3-0-1 and 10-11-0-3. With this “in-line” relationship of Loading and Right Forearm, it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm – not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft – that must be thrown, or driven, into Impact per 7-2-3
Got to be careful with Homers "Swinging vs Hitting". In 6-H-0 for instance he's talking True Swinging vs Drive Loading not Swinging vs Hitting general per say. In the above quote he's talking Drag vs Drive Loading , Arc of Approach vs Angle of Approach ( as an aside you can Hit and use the Arc) and assuming a certain grip type, wedges 90 degrees etc. So to answer your question , 4B Drag then Drive is a different animal, neither 12-1 nor 12-2.
Here's one for you. You say Angle of Approach is cross line, closed plane line (correctly) and then show photos of Arnie hitting a driver. Assuming Arnie positioned his ball at low point with that driver........If the Angle of Approach is a straight line from Impact to Low point .........wouldnt it, the angle of approach be straight line , square, inline with the target line?
And what are the implications to the quote above given a Hitter using the Angle of Approach who positions his ball at low point? For a Hitter using the Arc of Approach? How might these Hitters differ in terms of elbow position? Club shaft Plane Angle? Club head plane angle? Pivot participation?
There are 4B Hitters , there are 12-1 rs , there are Angle of Approachers , Hitters using the Arc of Approach , there are options, lots of options .......lots...
Got to be careful with Homers "Swinging vs Hitting". In 6-H-0 for instance he's talking True Swinging vs Drive Loading not Swinging vs Hitting general per say. In the above quote he's talking Drag vs Drive Loading , Arc of Approach vs Angle of Approach ( as an aside you can Hit and use the Arc) and assuming a certain grip type, wedges 90 degrees etc. So to answer your question , 4B Drag then Drive is a different animal, neither 12-1 nor 12-2.
Here's one for you. You say Angle of Approach is cross line, closed plane line (correctly) and then show photos of Arnie hitting a driver. Assuming Arnie positioned his ball at low point with that driver........If the Angle of Approach is a straight line from Impact to Low point .........wouldnt it, the angle of approach be straight line , square, inline with the target line?
And what are the implications to the quote above given a Hitter using the Angle of Approach who positions his ball at low point? For a Hitter using the Arc of Approach? How might these Hitters differ in terms of elbow position? Club shaft Plane Angle? Club head plane angle? Pivot participation?
There are 4B Hitters , there are 12-1 rs , there are Angle of Approachers , Hitters using the Arc of Approach , there are options, lots of options .......lots...
You know more about this junk than me....I'm trying to figure out how you can HIT/DRIVE if the forearm is directly opposed to the secondary lever...in you questions above does the positioning of the right forearm eventually change? Or can you hit from deep pitch late? IMO if you are pitch...you are pulling...
You know more about this junk than me....I'm trying to figure out how you can HIT/DRIVE if the forearm is directly opposed to the secondary lever...in you questions above does the positioning of the right forearm eventually change? Or can you hit from deep pitch late? IMO if you are pitch...you are pulling...
Bucket,
Every time I see Strickers great alignments lately, I think of you and your discussion of THE KING in keeping the assembly lined up for the right shoulder to assist from behind the shaft. If I remember correctly though, he was discussed as primarily a swinger? I love his motion, what do you think, and do you think he fits well into your ideas?
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Every time I see Strickers great alignments lately, I think of you and your discussion of THE KING in keeping the assembly lined up for the right shoulder to assist from behind the shaft. If I remember correctly though, he was discussed as primarily a swinger? I love his motion, what do you think, and do you think he fits well into your ideas?
Kevin
Nice observation....Stricker's wedges are THE MODEL for Eddie Cox Hitting Pattern....big angles not acute angles...have a look at his stats....cat is a BIRDIE MACHINE....he doesn't hit the driver all that well...I submit because he gets the left arm above his shoulder line...mixes his components...short irons...BEAUTIFUL alignments!
You know more about this junk than me....I'm trying to figure out how you can HIT/DRIVE if the forearm is directly opposed to the secondary lever...in you questions above does the positioning of the right forearm eventually change? Or can you hit from deep pitch late? IMO if you are pitch...you are pulling...
I needlessly complicated things there no doubt, again, but my point is that there are so many variables . Homer's 12-1 and 12-2 are beautifully simple ,diametrically opposed , divided by the way the lag pressure is loaded and the location of the loading.... two separate identities as he put it. But in the wild you got goof balls cooking up all sorts of strange brew and some of it works pretty good too. You'd never want to teach some of this stuff but it does seem to work for those guys.
So yes agreed , from Pitch you can only Pull . Barring something entirely weird and pointless. See there I go again getting all complicated again.... Son of a ...
And yes agreed , assuming the wedges are 90 degrees to each other..... if you drive against #1 on the aft, you drive the whole Primary Lever. But ...a crap , sorry ....what about Driving against some other location? How 'bout against the Top? Direct Drive Out of #2 angle say the club shaft only. We're in the Lab now for sure with an X classification throw. If the left hand is turned to plane would you get something like a Swingers Left WRsit Throw? Sequenced? Rhetorical question there .. If this procedure works (and I know a guy who says it does and it sure likes it does when I watch him and by the way he says it still tends towards Simultaneous) wouldn't this form of Hitting be better paired with Drag Loading to load the Rotated Pressure Point the knuckle aligned to the top of the shaft? Sure seems to make sense to me.
In regard to the position of the Right Elbow it does seem to try to find the strongest position to accommodate what ever the heck the Active Right Arm is doing. The range of motion going from pure Fanning to pure inline Bending and all the in-between.
I don't know if Tiger is using a Right Arm Throw or not but on some videos he sure looks like his right arm is active to my eye. Hey do you have footage of that swing in question there? In the photo he does appear to be Pitch elbow..... Which would suggest he's not using an active Right ARm logically. But then again .... a fudge......
Hybrid Mode
