I lost sleep;
"EXACTLY", the best you can put it into words. Where does the "release swivel" occur for the swinger?
HB
My answer : it starts at the Release Point (which is variable)
Slightly longer answer: and ends at the beginning of Hinge Action.
Or if you prefer a really longer answer with some patented rambling:
Same with Finish Swivel:starts where Hinge Action ends and finishes with the ..... wait for it... Left Hand on the bottom of the plane / right hand on the top assuming a V/V grip type.
This sounds weird I know , but when Swinging it can feel like one big Roll from Release to Finish Swivel . But it isnt just any old Roll it is an Roll that has specific alignments .... which you alluded to in a previous post.
And now for some rambling:
BTW Bear you said your axis of rotation is the spine. I think there is more to the story and its a major point of departure for many a golf theorist.
In startdown , yes the tilted axis of rotation (spine) drives the Right Shoulder down plane (assuming a Turned Shoulder Plane procedure and I do recommend it) this is the period of shoulder acceleration . But there is another lever IMO. The straight left arm attached to the pivot at the left shoulder accelerates away from the pivot thereby accelerating the hands to a speed that the pivot could never achieve. The hands are travelling at faster speed than the RPM of the pivot alone would ever allow for . There is no need for a crazy drastic over emphasized attempt to spin the pivot forever with arms pinned to chest. You dont pull with arms either. You dont do that when scything grass (Wild Bill again). As such the Spine is the centre of the pivot rotation and the left shoulder is the centre of the arm swing. You can change this for putting and make a shoulder stroke with two bent arms and thereby have low point mid body. Or you can Full Sweep Release a wedge flop say and get the arms swinging early. But for full power you need a transfer of momentum and a long lever for leverage --the straight left arm and you need what Homer termed Independent body and arm motion ---one thing Lynn loves about the McDonald drills . What Abe Mitchell tried to explain in his 1933 book. Its what we do all day with our arms. Like hinged blades on a rotor .
Or one is hinged , one is a ball joint. I like your right shoulder ball joint thing. Nice.
Short version of above: Once the left arm pulls away from the body (#4 firing and its the first to go) the Arms are moving about their own centre the Left Shoulder . Well assuming a Left Arm as centre procedure ... you could use the Right Elbow as some pros do , with a soft bent left arm at impact.
A wise man once when discussing this very thing and the notion that Hogan kept em plugged in ALL THE TIME pointed me to the Augusta footage Power Golf where he is letting one rip , high and long with a driver . He is leaning back like a long drive guy , ball forward and just ripping it and almost falling backwards as he flights it high. And of note he looks like he is trying to throw his arms off as fast as he can . Sure keep em pinned for control shots with angled hinging ! Not saying you cant do that when the situation demands. As Homer might have said if he were alive to hear these arguments " The pinned arm guys arent wrong necessarily their theory is just... well , incomplete". Hogan didnt pin em all the time. You could pin em for every shot of course , not saying you cant , but it aint ideal IMO. Sure are a lot of guys doing it these days. I did for a while. with a blocked angled release. A buddy of mine just kills it like this. Short swing , pinned, sorta like the new Tiger swing. Theres room for a difference of opinion. You got options.
My answer : it starts at the Release Point (which is variable)
Slightly longer answer: and ends at the beginning of Hinge Action.
For me- It starts as a "assembly" roll down. my words not HK- to me that part is a much slower roll and DOES NOT effect the wedges.
I feel likie I am in selected hinge as I get to shaft parallel to base line.
And I come out of hinge near both arms streaght - I say near because I dont force it into steer- The finish swivel is exactly as U say- For me.
Or if you prefer a really longer answer with some patented rambling:
Same with Finish Swivel:starts where Hinge Action ends and finishes with the ..... wait for it... Left Hand on the bottom of the plane / right hand on the top assuming a V/V grip type.
This sounds weird I know , but when Swinging it can feel like one big Roll from Release to Finish Swivel . But it isnt just any old Roll it is an Roll that has specific alignments .... which you alluded to in a previous post.
And now for some rambling:
BTW Bear you said your axis of rotation is the spine. I think there is more to the story and its a major point of departure for many a golf theorist.
In startdown , yes the tilted axis of rotation (spine) drives the Right Shoulder down plane (assuming a Turned Shoulder Plane procedure and I do recommend it) this is the period of shoulder acceleration . But there is another lever IMO. The straight left arm attached to the pivot at the left shoulder accelerates away from the pivot thereby accelerating the hands to a speed that the pivot could never achieve. The hands are travelling at faster speed than the RPM of the pivot alone would ever allow for . There is no need for a crazy drastic over emphasized attempt to spin the pivot forever with arms pinned to chest. You dont pull with arms either. You dont do that when scything grass (Wild Bill again). As such the Spine is the centre of the pivot rotation and the left shoulder is the centre of the arm swing. You can change this for putting and make a shoulder stroke with two bent arms and thereby have low point mid body. Or you can Full Sweep Release a wedge flop say and get the arms swinging early. But for full power you need a transfer of momentum and a long lever for leverage --the straight left arm and you need what Homer termed Independent body and arm motion ---one thing Lynn loves about the McDonald drills . What Abe Mitchell tried to explain in his 1933 book. Its what we do all day with our arms. Like hinged blades on a rotor .
Or one is hinged , one is a ball joint. I like your right shoulder ball joint thing. Nice.
Short version of above: Once the left arm pulls away from the body (#4 firing and its the first to go) the Arms are moving about their own centre the Left Shoulder . Well assuming a Left Arm as centre procedure ... you could use the Right Elbow as some pros do , with a soft bent left arm at impact.
A wise man once when discussing this very thing and the notion that Hogan kept em plugged in ALL THE TIME pointed me to the Augusta footage Power Golf where he is letting one rip , high and long with a driver . He is leaning back like a long drive guy , ball forward and just ripping it and almost falling backwards as he flights it high. And of note he looks like he is trying to throw his arms off as fast as he can . Sure keep em pinned for control shots with angled hinging ! Not saying you cant do that when the situation demands. As Homer might have said if he were alive to hear these arguments " The pinned arm guys arent wrong necessarily their theory is just... well , incomplete". Hogan didnt pin em all the time. You could pin em for every shot of course , not saying you cant , but it aint ideal IMO. Sure are a lot of guys doing it these days. I did for a while. with a blocked angled release. A buddy of mine just kills it like this. Short swing , pinned, sorta like the new Tiger swing. Theres room for a difference of opinion. You got options.
Let me ask U a question about EA because U have probably thought this through.
U walk up to a door that opens out- away from you- hing on left door knob on right. You reach out with your right hand to turn the knob and open the door. The question- for EA do U turn the knob clockwise or counterclockwise? 2 muscle sets. for me clockwise is good EA counterclockwise is disruptive. What do U think?
Let me ask U a question about EA because U have probably thought this through.
U walk up to a door that opens out- away from you- hing on left door knob on right. You reach out with your right hand to turn the knob and open the door. The question- for EA do U turn the knob clockwise or counterclockwise? 2 muscle sets. for me clockwise is good EA counterclockwise is disruptive. What do U think?
HB
Dont follow, by EA do you mean Extensor Action? If so:
EA is always in line with left arm , out away , not on plane given any #3 angle . Not a counter clock or anti clock thing, just out along the line of the left arm . It extends the inert left arm. The radius.
Say the door is not rigid its made of say kling wrap. EA stretches it out to full extension. Full Radius. The hinge is set at the left shoulder. Talking the machine here. A door is Single Horizontal , like a pin ball paddle. No Up. Just Back and IN. Any clockwise or counter clockwise turning of the DOOR (not the knob) by the Right Arm Flying Wedge (not the right hand) will not change the nature of the Hinge assuming an turn parallel to the plane of the door.
If the turning of the knob as you say rolls the wedges , the hinge at the left shoulder will change its Alignment . It isnt Single Horizontal any more. But Homer after much thought preferred to leave Club Face Control as a left sided thing. Especially for the Swinger. Not saying it cant be done by the Right Forearm Flying Wedge it can . A lot of Angled Hinge guys do this. Swingers and Hitters. But ....
But Homer after much thought preferred to leave Club Face Control as a left sided thing. Especially for the Swinger. Not saying it cant be done by the Right Forearm Flying Wedge it can . A lot of Angled Hinge guys do this. Swingers and Hitters. But ....
Bad choice of words?
I don't think "preferred" is a good choice. Unless there's a breakdown in the Primary Lever, the Primary Lever behaves as though the Left Shoulder was a Hinged joint rather than a Ball Joint (one end of the Primary Lever). This is because the Left Arm rotation is restrained by the Right Forearm Wedge and its Elbow Location, which Holds and Moves the Flat Left Wrist aligned to a Vertical, Angled or Horizontal Plane.
I don't think "preferred" is a good choice. Unless there's a breakdown in the Primary Lever, the Primary Lever behaves as though the Left Shoulder was a Hinged joint rather than a Ball Joint (one end of the Primary Lever). This is because the Left Arm rotation is restrained by the Right Forearm Wedge and its Elbow Location, which Holds and Moves the Flat Left Wrist aligned to a Vertical, Angled or Horizontal Plane.
So you're puting clubface control under the Right Forearm Flying Wedges job description? But with the left shoulder as centre. Fine by me. But not what Homer settled on . Maybe he was thinking Swinging when he wrote this? More Flail action than right side. You can for sure hinge when swinging with just right arm for instance.
Tell me , do you tend towards Angled when using this swinging procedure D?
About Hinge Action its merely a description of the attitude of the face through the impact area in 3 Dimensional space. There are three basic planes . None of this did Homer invent. Its just logical. As such you could swing a golf club with your right arm only or attached to dogs tail and it would describe some sort of path through the ball. Homer just liked the left shoulder and the left side.
Re the dogs tail etc it would no doubt promote an inconsistent rate of face closure . Compliance with a basic plane (horizontal, verictical or anything in between , aka angled ) guarantee's a constant rate of face closure . No spikes or valleys on the rate of closure graph so to speak. In this regard Homer in the audio tapes suggested that grooving a Hinge Action (any one of em) for putting was the secret to consistent putting . That you didnt need to practice putting as much or as often when you could effect your desired Hinge Action and get your ball positioned consistently. Of note is that he didnt even seem opposed to Vertical Hinging Straight Back Straight Through aka Steering , non shaft planar motion, covering the target line. If you could do it consistently you'd produce consistent results. But he acknowledged the difference in ball reaction ...... not as much ball travel , a tendency to loft in the first few inches given layback of the face .
So ya to have a Hinge Action you need to be compliant with a basic plane and there are mechanical alignments that promote that. A centre to the arm motion , a constant radius , a delivery line to watch/ monitor, a ROLL feel. YOU SEEM TO ROLL THE RIGHT FOREARM WEDGE.. WHY NOT? And for this you must prepare. At Top . They form your intentions.
But I digress. My apologies to ICT . Uh can you repeat the question? Bueller ?
I wanna go back to what the centre of the motion is re the wedges.
Wouldnt the wedges attach to the primary lever? Which is centred at the left shoulder. So you spin your pivot in startdown and then throw out your primary lever and roll the wedges about the left shoulder.
Or is it the LCOG? (Bear need not answer he disagrees we know) I dont see the wedges as rotating about the spine.
Thats how I feel it, see it anyways. Sorta like a top spin backhand in tennis . Talking flail action here. Wedges roll together.
I'm not putting Clubface control under anything but the left shoulder, Hinge action. I'm only saying that the kind of hinge is determined by the right forearm.
Hybrid Mode
