There is a combination of rotary and vertical movent of the shoulders in the DS, Joe Norwood talked alot about the shoulders acting as pistons driving the arms through impact...ie. vertical not rotary...Norwood may have helped Hogan in the 40s.
If accumulator 4 has started to release...ie left arm is moving down and off the chest... can pivot motion do anything more than divert the path of the arm after release has started? ie. the chest rotation can't push the arm once the arm has left the chest....but the shoulders can move and alter the left arm in a different manner...?maybe redirecting the power package or actually adding force??
Maybe MFT swing starts with rotation and then fires later with vertical...but it is all blended through a general application of force....force is the ultimate result however it is achieved...aligned force.
In the edit I did on this youtube:
Whilst accumulator 4 has not started to release (ie. the initial move before frame by frame segemnt) the left shoulder moves left without much vertical motion...John Schlee (and hence Tom Bertrand) always go on about moving "level left".
Then there is much more vertical motion in the next sgement (frame by frame)...
Obviously it is all blended....but the pivot is much more complicated than just pure rotation. I'm sure that Jeff could do a great job with his Spline tool on the motion of the left shoulder and left knee....maybe "j" shaped...?horizontal during lateral weight shift and preliminary rotation (about 45 degrees) then much more towards vertical when the axis tilt kicks in ???
You wrote-: ".but the shoulders can move and alter the left arm in a different manner...? maybe redirecting the power package or actually adding force??"
Let's presume that the right shoulder can add thrust force (push-pressure or added weight) to the right forearm/wrist/hand in the late downswing and at impact. Would it make the ball travel faster?
You wrote-: ".but the shoulders can move and alter the left arm in a different manner...? maybe redirecting the power package or actually adding force??"
Let's presume that the right shoulder can add thrust force (push-pressure or added weight) to the right forearm/wrist/hand in the late downswing and at impact. Would it make the ball travel faster?
I am not saying that the right shoulder adds force through impact resistance...just by increasing arm trhust PRIOR to impact...
If the left arm is blasted off the chest by rotation of pivot...does the left arm continue to accelerate in a pure swing...??
If the left arm is blasted off then is given an extra force prior to impact...will that increase hand speed - and perhaps more imortantly alter hands path - prior to impact resulting in more clubhead speed at impact?
Get a copy of "golf-o-metrics" - it should be part of your journey. If you want to document the perfect swing as well as all swings - as Mac O'Grady wishes to do, by all accounts - then you should at least follow his footsteps to see where he is right or wrong. The book is written by his students...it is very hard to read...makes TGM seem like kindergarten stuff
Mac liked Norwood alot (gave him a very complimentary review on his video)...but he apparently gave Joe Norwood a copy of TGM... Mac likes both apparently...
Here is a graph showing the arm speed of an excellent golfer.
Note that arm speed increases after the shoulders decelerate. However, arm speed decreases prior to impact. Note that clubhead speed increases all the way to impact (slope of the clubshaft curve represents its rate of acceleration).
Let's presume that one could prevent the left arm from slowing down in this kinetic sequence by some supplementary biomechanical maneuver (eg. increasing right shoulder thrust). Would that be advantageous and increase clubhead speed at impact?
I think not - because the arms have to slow down to allow for the complete release of PA#2 and PA#3 in a swinger's action. Accelerating the left arm in the late downswing will interfere with the club's release phenomenon, and actually decrease clubhead speed into impact.
I think that the only practical method of increasing clubhead speed is to increase the speed of evolution of the entire kinetic sequence. In other words, Tiger Woods performs this entire kinetic sequence much faster than the average amateur golfer, who is skilled enough to get the kinetic sequence correct.
I don't that you are representing his "core" MFT argument.
His core argument is based on multiple firings - the idea that one should reactivate the hip turn again in the late downswing.
This is what he wrote-: "In a biomechanical graph, this means that Tiger has two velocity peaks for his hips and shoulders. His second hip velocity peak occurs just prior to impact and this "slingshots" his shoulders (2nd firing) into the ball with maximum force."
He is arguing that a second hip velocity peak will "slingshot" the shoulders into the ball with maximum force. Do you buy that argument? Do you believe that slinging your right shoulder into the ball with maximum force (as a second firing) will increase ball speed? If you do, please explain the mechanics.
Jeff.
Not sure about all the bursting stuff . . . . I just think the segments in the pivot go from flexion to extension . . . . it's like full lever extension of the pivot . . . extending the segments from the feet all the way through . . . extending the entire radius. Tiger blew out his knee from over-rotation not extension. Sure the shoulders rotate but I think the speed is from the fast arms and the extension . . . .
A lot of this has to do with the sequence with which this happens . . . You can get a transition like Hogan/Sergio but you can't just let the pivot pin the left arm and have it drag it over or under plane . . . .it has to go FAST to stay on the plane. The hands have to go down plane FAST. #4 releasing . ..
Whilst accumulator 4 has not started to release (ie. the initial move before frame by frame segemnt) the left shoulder moves left without much vertical motion...John Schlee (and hence Tom Bertrand) always go on about moving "level left".
Then there is much more vertical motion in the next sgement (frame by frame)...
Obviously it is all blended....but the pivot is much more complicated than just pure rotation. I'm sure that Jeff could do a great job with his Spline tool on the motion of the left shoulder and left knee....maybe "j" shaped...?horizontal during lateral weight shift and preliminary rotation (about 45 degrees) then much more towards vertical when the axis tilt kicks in ???
This is what this cat had to say about hitting . ..
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I agree with most of your stuff about kinetic sequence. But can I just check that I see the same things as you in that chart?
When you say the shoulders decelerate - do you mean time point green diamond?
I am not convinced that the arm rotational velocity increase much between green diamond and blue circle (time point for max arm speed)... the arm speed trace seems to plateau at about the same time as the shoulder rotation...approximately.
The thorax does increase in rotational velocity after peak pelvis rotational speed - That I do accept.
What interest me is the relative lack of vertical motion in the early DS pivot (top of BS -ie. pre red square - to green diamond) relative to the period in later DS ( green diamond to impact).
This is where the piston shoulder bit comes in I think... as i said earlier - it may be hand path that is effected most...your graph shows rotational speed...the shoulders move less in rotation in some DS segemnts and more in vertical direction it seems ...?
For Joe Norwood material i will PM (it is commercial so can not post on LBG)
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