Great stuff Drew! I have been mulling over posture-related stuff recently. I think I straighten my spine on the downstroke as a compensation for a spine angle that is too steep to begin with. Rereading Hogan's Five Modern Fundamentals I was taken back by the method hogan used to organize himself at address.
1. Stand erect.
2. Lower arms
3. Flex knees while keeping the spine erect
4. Bow head from the neck without hunching the shoulders.
The spine angle in his case is created by the out of line condition that exists between a straight spine and flexed knees.
Between the straight spine and flexed knees you cannot help but have a flat shoulder and hip turn, right? My point is that perhaps I am better served with a more "upright" torso posture as opposed to increasing the bend coming down?
On the pics of Hogan the degree of waistbend from a 7 iron to a driver is negligible. Not something I notices before. The amount of knee bend (obscured by tailored pants) and neck bend is what makes it look different at first glance. A lot of tour types stand tall.
if you put of pics of Hogan at the top . . . . I'd submit that you'll find different numbers . . . . adds waist bend . . . I think.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-04-2010 at 10:35 PM.
Is it waist bend, or knee bend? I agree that increasing waistbend is better than standing up through the ball. But my twisted logic is that being too bent over tends to promote coming out of your spine angle, especially if you are on a flatter plane.
Is it waist bend, or knee bend? I agree that increasing waistbend is better than standing up through the ball. But my twisted logic is that being too bent over tends to promote coming out of your spine angle, especially if you are on a flatter plane.
Maybe . . . but there's probably some range of motion stuff in that equation as well. Optimal "out of line" angles that go to in line more pivot train . . . . that being said I'm sure there are economies of scale there too.
And now from the what I'm thinking about these days is relevant to everything file...
Buck, Okie et all, those first two photos of Hogan and Lee Buck..................I see a ton of loading at the #4 pp, 4 being the Master Accumulator, "the Rotor is the motor" (just made that up) and would you agree that 6M1 is a turning thing?........... That makes the ball flight sing......bound by wild desire............I fell in to a ring of fire.........
OK the nurse just came by with the meds and they're kick'n in hard but stick with me here while Im still lucid ish........Trevino is a hitter in most peoples books BUT he's got a whole lot of turn'n goin on. Like, goodaness gracious......
And see how he takes that right shoulder "to the end of the road". Hitters with pivot stalls.... my aunt Fanny!
Buck, Okie et all, those first two photos of Hogan and Lee Buck..................I see a ton of loading at the #4 pp, 4 being the Master Accumulator, "the Rotor is the motor" (just made that up) and would you agree that 6M1 is a turning thing?........... That makes the ball flight sing......bound by wild desire............I fell in to a ring of fire.........
OK the nurse just came by with the meds and they're kick'n in hard but stick with me here while Im still lucid ish........Trevino is a hitter in most peoples books and he's got a whole lot of turn'n goin on. Like, goodaness gracious......
And see how he takes that right shoulder "to the end of the road". Hitters with pivot stalls.... my aunt Fanny!
Skooter . . . I would agree to a point on the "whole lotta turnin' goin' on" . . . but the point is WHEN WHEN WHEN does it go on?
If you look at the first to pics . . . I would submit to you that it AIN'T going on a whole lot relatively at that point. At that point you is seeing a WHOLE WHOLE WHOLE LOTTA SLIDIN' GOING ON. The shoulders are closed . . . reference the position of the left arm in relation to the "stance line" . . . that arm ain't in line with (covering) the stance line at that point. Now . . . also consider that Lee Buck plays from an OPEN stance too . . . so that's a double or triple does of "arm in". These two cats slide forward better'n anybody to ever lace 'em up. Now . . . do they turn and turn and turn a bunch . . . yes sir . . . but it's LATE.
ON THE LINE . . . . .
IN SIDE THE LINE . . . .
Within the components what do you see that would cause the difference in the position of the left arm?
The other thing I'd draw attention in those first to pics is the FACE . . . OPEN FACE vs. SHUT FACE.
The 3rd set . . . look at Mr. Hogan's face . . . see how it AIN'T CROSSED OVER??? . . . . two of the most ak-uuuuur-it to set it on a peg . . . and their club face is huuuuush husssssssh husssssh quiet . . . . hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Within the components what do you see that would cause the difference in the position of the left arm?
The other thing I'd draw attention in those first to pics is the FACE . . . OPEN FACE vs. SHUT FACE.
The 3rd set . . . look at Mr. Hogan's face . . . see how it AIN'T CROSSED OVER??? . . . . two of the most ak-uuuuur-it to set it on a peg . . . and their club face is huuuuush husssssssh husssssh quiet . . . . hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Buck, agreed.......Slide with a Delayed Turn. Its a magic move for me but some times I get slidin and just keep on go'n. Slide with a Delayed Turn yes but for crying out loud by all means Turn and hard.
Im working on the Pivot Stall by turning the left foot out some Hogan style and some secret elxirs I got while at the swamp and in St Simons Island Georgia. For me the stall and the goat hump all relate to hitting off of mats during the winter I think but thats another story. Here's a photo of some work Im doin in the backyard. Told my wife I was goin out to shovel some snow...........with a two iron. No ball there but Im getting to look more like that when confronted by the ball. I realize Im being a bit like the girl who posts only her absolute best photos to her facebook page here. Only an hour or so of photoshop work there, nothing too drastic. I hate my thighs.
A recent revelation from LUke, in regard to Rear End (did Homer use caps for this component?).... Plane Line encroachment ("R.E.P.L.E") is that in the absence of Turning, the weight sometimes remains over the Ball of the Left Foot or worse still the toes. If you then try to Pivot over the Ball instead of the weighted Heal.........R,E,P,L,E.............like Tammy Wynett is singing it, Brosuph. Think about it from a birdseye perspective. Specially if you are Sliding along the alternate plane line or a 10-5-E or an Angle of Approach. Sorry I know this is a Swingers Startdown thread but Im multi tasking for the Hitting impaired.
There, in those circumstances anywyas, the goat hump is a foot balance point thing that works its way up the 6M1 pathway, if you will? You Slide, weight moves from right heal to left ball, the c.o.g. moves towards the target line, then the Hips instead of turning and pulling the weight to the heal stall, stop rotating and the dang c.o.g. remains over the balls of the left foot (or toes if you're drifting), in the downstroke the brain senses the sweetspot is moving outside the ball and directs the head and shoulders to pull back in an effort to re establish the proper Left Shoulder to golf ball Radius. Geometry of the Circle and a ground, up "encroachment" reaction. Holla back on that one. Hope Luke doesnt mind me making a mash of his stuff!
Ill take a stab at your questions......
- Mr. Squat didnt slide as much as the Hawk?
-Lee's face is shut. His left hand is arched too. 10-2-D grip. Now if he is using the Angle of Approach and Angled Hinging that shut face would serve him well. Other than that I got nothin.
-the "third set" , you mean DTL Hogan and Lee? Clubfaces toe up? Hard to see Trevinos clubface but it aint Angled there I dont think, but on the other hand, its the left hand that really matters and given his super strong grip his left hand will not be as rolled over as the face appears for sure..................Hmmm both those guys hated going left. What is your observation there Dr Bucket?
Buck, agreed.......Slide with a Delayed Turn. Its a magic move for me but some times I get slidin and just keep on go'n. Slide with a Delayed Turn yes but for crying out loud by all means Turn and hard.
Im working on the Pivot Stall by turning the left foot out some Hogan style and some secret elxirs I got while at the swamp and in St Simons Island Georgia. For me the stall and the goat hump all relate to hitting off of mats during the winter I think but thats another story. Here's a photo of some work Im doin in the backyard. Told my wife I was goin out to shovel some snow...........with a two iron. No ball there but Im getting to look more like that when confronted by the ball. I realize Im being a bit like the girl who posts only her absolute best photos to her facebook page here. Only an hour or so of photoshop work there, nothing too drastic. I hate my thighs.
A recent revelation from LUke, in regard to Rear End (did Homer use caps for this component?).... Plane Line encroachment ("R.E.P.L.E") is that in the absence of Turning, the weight sometimes remains over the Ball of the Left Foot or worse still the toes. If you then try to Pivot over the Ball instead of the weighted Heal.........R,E,P,L,E.............like Tammy Wynett is singing it, Brosuph. Think about it from a birdseye perspective. Specially if you are Sliding along the alternate plane line or a 10-5-E or an Angle of Approach. Sorry I know this is a Swingers Startdown thread but Im multi tasking for the Hitting impaired.
There, in those circumstances anywyas, the goat hump is a foot balance point thing that works its way up the 6M1 pathway, if you will? You Slide, weight moves from right heal to left ball, the c.o.g. moves towards the target line, then the Hips instead of turning and pulling the weight to the heal stall, stop rotating and the dang c.o.g. remains over the balls of the left foot (or toes if you're drifting), in the downstroke the brain senses the sweetspot is moving outside the ball and directs the head and shoulders to pull back in an effort to re establish the proper Left Shoulder to golf ball Radius. Geometry of the Circle and a ground, up "encroachment" reaction. Holla back on that one. Hope Luke doesnt mind me making a mash of his stuff!
Ill take a stab at your questions......
- Mr. Squat didnt slide as much as the Hawk?
-Lee's face is shut. His left hand is arched too. 10-2-D grip. Now if he is using the Angle of Approach and Angled Hinging that shut face would serve him well. Other than that I got nothin.
-the "third set" , you mean DTL Hogan and Lee? Clubfaces toe up? Hard to see Trevinos clubface but it aint Angled there I dont think, but on the other hand, its the left hand that really matters and given his super strong grip his left hand will not be as rolled over as the face appears for sure..................Hmmm both those guys hated going left. What is your observation there Dr Bucket?
Hogan went more forward than Snead . . . look at the knees and hips if you stuck a dowel across 'em you'd see way different directions between the two . . . Snead much more spinny and open with the shoulders . . . shoulder plane controls arm plane so note where the club is cutting their right arm . . . at essentially the same spot in the stroke . . . Snead up toward right shoulder . . . Hogan on the middle of the bicep . . . Hogan going forward swing arms down FAST . . . Snead more spinning into the left arm and then whip them down. If you had the face on you'd see Snead's left knee start to straighten faster too . . . left knee straightens pretty much no more going forward and hips will begin to turn.
Take a look at the tilt in your shoulders . . . know you're trying to miss the ground so that could be it . . . and not sure if that's the same swing or not but if you look at your garage doe . . . looks like your head is tilting back? Keep your right shoulder higher longer as you go forward?
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Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-06-2010 at 10:02 PM.
I think Trevino had loads of waist bend. I have learned more from Lee Buck than anyone.
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