Hitters drive (push) the entire club- shaft and clubhead through the ball. There is no whirl- no arc of approach but an ANGLE of approach.
Agreed 6bmike, this is exactly what I "see": the angle of approach line crossing the target line and going to right field... and it's working well.
Now, quoting 2-M-4: "...consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting a Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact, or as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed",
don't you think that, even if the Hitter doesn't whirl the clubhead, he feels the clubhead accelerating and feels CF as an incidence of the motion just created???
It's not me, it's physics: I think that hitting or swinging (different sources of power), the clubhead moves in an orbit around the shoulder hinge. And everything orbiting has Centrifugal Force.
Thus, we should feel that resulting CF while hitting, right?!
It would be nice if an accomplished 4 barrel hitter like TED could describe if he feels that (Luke, do you feel the (Centrifugal) Force? ).
Agreed 6bmike, this is exactly what I "see": the angle of approach line crossing the target line and going to right field... and it's working well.
Now, quoting 2-M-4: "...consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting a Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact, or as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed",
don't you think that, even if the Hitter doesn't whirl the clubhead, he feels the clubhead accelerating and feels CF as an incidence of the motion just created???
It's not me, it's physics: I think that hitting or swinging (different sources of power), the clubhead moves in an orbit around the shoulder hinge. And everything orbiting has Centrifugal Force.
Thus, we should feel that resulting CF while hitting, right?!
It would be nice if an accomplished 4 barrel hitter like TED could describe if he feels that (Luke, do you feel the (Centrifugal) Force? ).
Not physics- geometry. the clubhead still moves in a circle except the whole radius of the club is pushed. The clubhead is not whirled. Like beating a carpet on a clothes line instead of whirling a rock on a string. CF needs greater throw-out- a quick move from the start. A hitter plots his course. There is no CF in lower throw-out speeds. Muscle power only. A batering ram instead of a catapolt. CF is uncontrolable- you give up control to the forces of Newton. Hitters maintain control and push/drive the club to low point. Swingers live on the edge of throw-away. Their only control is propr mechanics of the gryo- right shoulder thrust.
I think that Yodasluke has written in differents threads that he is a four barrels hitter, and start the downswing with a "swinger feeling" in PP#4.
Start like a swinger and then push like a hitter ?
Feel like a swinger startdown then push like a hitter
Originally Posted by phimaynard
I think that Yodasluke has written in differents threads that he is a four barrels hitter, and start the downswing with a "swinger feeling" in PP#4.
Start like a swinger and then push like a hitter ?
Exactly my feeling!
PP4 blasts of my left arm from my chest - it feels like a swinger startdown - BUT as soon as ACC#4 releases, I "catch the momentum" and add more power to the motion by strongly drive the whole unit (arm+club) down and out to the ground.
The power produced by this procedure is amazing and I think it explains why Ted drasticaly increased the lenght of his shots!
I certify that my clubface is producing angled hinging with the distinctive no-roll feel.
I could also SWING using the same startdown (using PP4 to blast the left arm of the chest) but I will whirl the clubhead to impact instead of driving it.
The result is a distinctive horizontal hinging with a full-roll feel.
So to summup things:
For me, Hitting or Swinging, the blast of the left arm from the chest using PP4 is the same - So are the feelings AT THIS MOMENT of the swing.
Then ONLY at ACC#4 release, the different feels between hitting and swinging happen.
ExtensorMike - if he feels CF while hitting, he's actually right arm svinging??
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Yodeli is saying that he feels CF while hitting, does anyone have an explanation/TGM interpretation?
No he isn't right arm swinging. I don't open that can. No CF at the top- CF is a throw-out of the clubhead. You can start down like a swinger but that isn't CF. A hitters push will slow down a clubhead released by CF. Like wise a swinger can't 'push the club' after releasing it via CF.
ExtensorMike - if he feels CF while hitting, he's actually right arm svinging??
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Yodeli is saying that he feels CF while hitting, does anyone have an explanation/TGM interpretation?
This swinger feeling in PP4 while attempting to hit confused me a lot and I thought I was mixing.
Then, recently I read 2-M-4:
Homer says that "[Pivot Thrust is] supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed".
In this chapter, Homer doesn't say that the pivot is doing something different, Hitting or Swinging.
He just says that Pivot Thrust (one Action, Hitting or Swinging) is accelerating the loaded power package (the result of the Action when Hitting) or blasts the inert left arm (the result of the Action when Swinging).
Originally Posted by Thom
..or will it be possible to feel CF from the top to release, and then confound drive out lag pressure with CF lag pressure into impact??
Thom,
I think you put the finger on something:
Imagine your left arm and clubshaft as one straight and stiff unit attached to your left shoulder (my thought at impact fix).
Then, pick up the whole unit accross your chest using a hitter's takeaway.
Then, load ACC#4 and feel PP4 by turning your body to the target.
The left arm flying wedge (the "whole stiff unit") will follow and will be blast of the chest somewhere halfway down when ACC#4 starts to release.
Then ADD more power by driving the whole unit using right arm thrust.
You will agree that that way of considering the left arm+club as one unit is clearly not a swinging procedure!
However if you think of what is happening in step 4 above, the "whole stiff unit" initially accelerated by the pivot could kinda fell like CF until you activate the thrust of the right arm!!!
I am interested in Yodeli's commentary that a pivot action is necessary prior to hitting with the right arm (triceps activation actively extending the right elbow). I can envisage the downswing pivot action throwing the left arm off the chest wall with a very assertive (very active) right shoulder thrust maneuver, and I can also envisage a more gentle right shoulder thrust maneuver that simply moves the power package assembly downplane, and into a mid-downswing position where the right arm can start to actively power the downswing via a hitting action. Which of these two options is recommended for a hitter?
I am interested in Yodeli's commentary that a pivot action is necessary prior to hitting with the right arm (triceps activation actively extending the right elbow). I can envisage the downswing pivot action throwing the left arm off the chest wall with a very assertive (very active) right shoulder thrust maneuver, and I can also envisage a more gentle right shoulder thrust maneuver that simply moves the power package assembly downplane, and into a mid-downswing position where the right arm can start to actively power the downswing via a hitting action. Which of these two options is recommended for a hitter?
Jeff.
Now I'm lost. Was there doubt that a Hitter had no pivot? Certainly a hitter has a hip action and turn.
Second- CF is a throw-out. You can not feel CF because it is a clubface motion. The clubface seeks an inline condition, not the golfer's body
Check out the video I posted called "Hitters Row." Ted is hitting in the background and Lynn is swinging in the foreground. Check out the pivots.
Check out the video I posted called "Hitters Row." Ted is hitting in the background and Lynn is swinging in the foreground. Check out the pivots.
Yes, in my eye the pivot action at the start of the downstroke is the same: it loads the power package and starts the checkrein action for both strokes…
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Now I'm lost. Was there doubt that a Hitter had no pivot? Certainly a hitter has a hip action and turn.
6bmike,
I think Jeff among others have an incomplete picture on how to perform a complete hitting stroke. At last I was!
Why so? I think it relates to what we saw on videos: When Lynn describes the Hitting stroke, he puts a lot of emphasis on the right arm thrust as THE power source for Hitters and talk very little about the role of the pivot as an equally important source of power for the Hitter.
You are lucky enough to be close to the green man, so you have no fog in your mind, be for the fellow TGMers far away and only relying on the videos, this could be half the story we need to know about Hitting.
To me, there is a lack of information about chapter 2-M-4 related to the Hitting stroke on the videos: As a result, I pictured Hitting in my mind more of a 1-2-3 release of the accumulators (requiring to have the right arm of Mike Tyson!) with the body following the motion some way, instead of the proper 4-1-2-3 much more powerful release (and requiring a normal right arm!).
Originally Posted by 6bmike
Second- CF is a throw-out. You can not feel CF because it is a clubface motion. The clubface seeks an inline condition, not the golfer's body
Sure, but imagine that while performing a Hitting stroke, the clubhead detaches from the shaft halfway down in the downstroke (as if your club broke!).
Because the clubhead is moving in an arc (hitting or swinging!), you can be sure it is subject to CF and that the clubhead will go away in the tangent of the arc of the swing where it broke! For sure it will not spear the aiming point!
This is this kind of CF I am talking about.
I think that if you are Hitting, using a proper angled hinge action (and even with only ACC#1 power!) you can feel this resulting CF in the clubhead because physics dictates there is some!!!
I just discovered that using a lot of lag pressure in PP4 makes me more aware of this RESULTING CF occurring while Hitting…and I thought it was wrong!
I agree that I would have been wrong if I thought about Hitting and using CF instead of right arm thrust to provide power but I think we are not talking about the same CF here: One is propelling the clubhead (Swinging) while the other is a inevitable result of the angular motion and must not been regarded as wrong while hitting!
).
!
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