I'm wondering about some pros and cons to the downswing being on the TSP.. including impact. Are there any specific components or accumulator sequences that would be necessary?
not sure where this can go but a little discussion on it might trigger a few questions. thanks
To start, the simplest procedure would be the standard shoulder turn (10-13-A) which is really a combination of B-Flat backstroke and D-On Plane downstroke.
Not mandatory, but recommended.
Quote:
7-13 SHOULDER TURN
...
When the Shoulder moves on the same Downstroke Plane as the Hands it provides the greatest support and its best guidance to the Stroke.
...
10-13-A STANDARD
This is dual application of the Flat (-B below) Backstroke and On Plane (-D below) Down-stroke Shoulder Turn.
10-13-B FLAT
This is a relatively flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn which places the Shoulder “On Plane” for any Plane Angle with a flatter angle than the Rotated Shoulder Angle. A Flat Down-stroke Shoulder Turn can serve only to impact a circular motion to the Stroke, but almost irresistibly “Off Plane.”
10-13-D ON PLANE
After a 13-B or 13-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Down-stroke Clubshaft Plane, establishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments. When the Shoulder can’t quite reach the Plane, it is better to use a steeper Plane.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
To start, the simplest procedure would be the standard shoulder turn (10-13-A) which is really a combination of B-Flat backstroke and D-On Plane downstroke.
Not mandatory, but recommended.
Kevin
Thanks Kev, great answer.
If I understand this correctly, the shoulder turn is a flatter one in which the right shoulder traces the tsp into impact.
I'm confused on what is bold.
10-13-B FLAT
This is a relatively flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn which places the Shoulder “On Plane” for any Plane Angle with a flatter angle than the Rotated Shoulder Angle. A Flat Down-stroke Shoulder Turn can serve only to impact a circular motion to the Stroke, but almost irresistibly “Off Plane.”
10-13-D ON PLANE
After a 13-B or 13-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Down-stroke Clubshaft Plane, establishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments. When the Shoulder can’t quite reach the Plane, it is better to use a steeper Plane.
If I understand this correctly, the shoulder turn is a flatter one in which the right shoulder traces the tsp into impact.
I'm confused on what is bold.
10-13-B FLAT
This is a relatively flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn which places the Shoulder “On Plane” for any Plane Angle with a flatter angle than the Rotated Shoulder Angle. A Flat Down-stroke Shoulder Turn can serve only to impact a circular motion to the Stroke, but almost irresistibly “Off Plane.”
10-13-D ON PLANE
After a 13-B or 13-C Backstroke Shoulder Turn, the Right Shoulder moves toward Impact precisely on the preselected Down-stroke Clubshaft Plane, establishing and supporting the Power Package Delivery alignments. When the Shoulder can’t quite reach the Plane, it is better to use a steeper Plane.
I think that is an endorsment by Mr. Kelley for using the TSP. I believe what he meant is that he feels a straight line delivery to the aiming point is the simplest procedure, and you can't do it from the elbow plane. Hence, better to use the steeper TSP where the right shoulder can travel down the plane line.
I think Bucket is correct, as always, the elbow plane procedure includes a lot more #3, possibly why folks like Mr. Gay aren't super long, but perhaps also why Brian is so solid and consistent.
My opinion is the TSP with straight line delivery in a hitting procedure is incredibly easy to master.
I could be completely wrong...
There are lots of great ways to get 'er done, but TSP is what I am loving right now. No disrespect to Mr. Bucket.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Why do you think that using more #3 doesn't result in distance? I know what #2 and #3 are but I think I'm confused as to their usage with a tsp straight line delivery.
Why do you think that using more #3 doesn't result in distance? I know what #2 and #3 are but I think I'm confused as to their usage with a tsp straight line delivery.
I think the opposite mcgolf, I just didn't state it very well. While some pics show Brian getting close to the elbow plane at impact, I think he is closer to the TSP than most, resulting in a little less #3 than those with lower hands at impact... Make a little more sense? OB has posted some great pics of Brian's plane, but they are on my home computer...
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I'm wondering about some pros and cons to the downswing being on the TSP.. including impact. Are there any specific components or accumulator sequences that would be necessary?
not sure where this can go but a little discussion on it might trigger a few questions. thanks
You should read my Book, "1001 Problems with the Elbow Plane".
Consider this:
Normally, the Elbow Plane requires a Delivery Path Shift. You can (but almost impossible) Trace the Plane Line after the Shift. Until then, no tracing. But this is overshadowed by a bigger problem. Hand Path and Clubshaft Plane are different until Release. That means while the Hands trace one path, the Clubhead is tracing another. Elbow Plane Golfers need to find "The Slot" or "Groove". With the TSP, the Hand Path and Clubshaft Plane share the same Angle throughout the Downstroke and Impact.
Shallower Planes require the Left Arm to move away from the Chest earlier than Steeper Planes. The Shallower the Plane, the Earlier the Release. Early Release is a Cause of Throwaway. Therefore, Shallow Swing Planes Cause Throwaway. An Elbow Plane is a Shallow Plane, therefore the Elbow Plane Causes Throwaway.
Elbow Planes are notoriously Pivot Controlled Hands Procedures. This means that the #3 or #2 PP trace the Pivots Rotation, not the Plane Line.
Elbow Planes rely on Pivot Speed. TSP relies on Downstroke Acceleration Sequence.
You should read my Book, "1001 Problems with the Elbow Plane".
Consider this:
Normally, the Elbow Plane requires a Delivery Path Shift. You can (but almost impossible) Trace the Plane Line after the Shift. Until then, no tracing. But this is overshadowed by a bigger problem. Hand Path and Clubshaft Plane are different until Release. That means while the Hands trace one path, the Clubhead is tracing another. Elbow Plane Golfers need to find "The Slot" or "Groove". With the TSP, the Hand Path and Clubshaft Plane share the same Angle throughout the Downstroke and Impact.
can you show me a golfer that really gets on the TSP at impact? Most golfers who play at the highest levels are on the elbow plane . . . do you have an explanation for why they do such a thing?
Shallower Planes require the Left Arm to move away from the Chest earlier than Steeper Planes. The Shallower the Plane, the Earlier the Release. Early Release is a Cause of Throwaway. Therefore, Shallow Swing Planes Cause Throwaway. An Elbow Plane is a Shallow Plane, therefore the Elbow Plane Causes Throwaway. Why would the left arm moving away from the chest be a problem? Is not the release sequence 4-1-2-3? Is this not a natural occurrence? Why would you want to delay #4? Could this not cause a Bob?
Elbow Planes are notoriously Pivot Controlled Hands Procedures. This means that the #3 or #2 PP trace the Pivots Rotation, not the Plane Line. What does this mean?
Elbow Planes rely on Pivot Speed. TSP relies on Downstroke Acceleration Sequence.
is the downstroke acceleration sequence not dependent upon pivot speed . . . massive rotor?
Why do you think that using more #3 doesn't result in distance? I know what #2 and #3 are but I think I'm confused as to their usage with a tsp straight line delivery.
To me the advantage of the elbow plane lies in Mr. Kelley's description of it in the earlier editions (1,2,3) . . . the right forearm traveling at right angles to the axis . . . AND on the flatter plane the rate the clubface rotates around the sweetspot is SLOWER for a given amount of roll . . . so the mechanical advantages in my mind are the slower rate of rotation of the clubface and the physics of the club moving at right angles to the "axis of rotation".
Bucket Asked: is the downstroke acceleration sequence not dependent upon pivot speed . . . massive rotor?
The Acceleration Sequence is present in non-Pivot Swings as Well as Pivot Swings.
Shoulder Acceleration
Hand Acceleration
Clubhead Acceleration
The amount of Lag Pressure required for distance control, in an Alignment Based Swing, determines the Speed of your Pivots Rotation.
This is symptomatic with Pivot Controlled Hands Players, to take the shortest club requiring the greatest effort to hit the Ball within 10 feet of your target, when, if anything other than a perfect wing, results in decreased distance.
Hybrid Mode
