I can not disagree with anything above that you have mentioned. Excellently stated and quite clear as I sift through my book (which is already coming apart).
My concern is, why should the impact plane line be a chord of the circle and not tangent to the circle and any chord that connects impact and low point is not parallel to a tangent of the circle from the same low point. This is true by definition of what a chord is.
I define low point plane line as the line tangent to the point where low point occurs. I would also define the impact plane line using the same definition (a line tangent to the point where impact occurs).
Why would one plane line have a different definition than the other?
Clearly you can see that at no point is any chord parallel to the low point plane line. When (P) and (Q) are the same point then it becomes a tagent.
Can I move point (P) and make a parallel chord? Sure.
But why would I?
What would be the reason to justify that?
Because, except during a Low Point Impact, the Ball does not leave the Circle on an Impact Tangent (a line perpendicular to the radius and necessarily to the right of Target when the Ball is Up Plane from Low Point). Instead, because of the Golf Club's design (Hooked Face) it leaves the Circle on an Impact Chord (Impact Plane Line pointing toward the Target).
Because, except during a Low Point Impact, the Ball does not leave the Circle on an Impact Tangent (a line perpendicular to the radius and necessarily to the right of Target when the Ball is Up Plane from Low Point). Instead, because of the Golf Club's design (Hooked Face) it leaves the Circle on an Impact Chord (Impact Plane Line pointing toward the Target).
Ok Great. So am I understanding correctly that the impact plane line is of the ball and not the club head?
Ok Great. So am I understanding correctly that the impact plane line is of the ball and not the club head?
Seems strange. Hopefully, I'm misunderstanding.
ABSOLUTELY . . . that is what is impacted no? The ball would always be on the impact plane line . . . low point plane line and impact plane line get farther apart as you move the ball more back. as a result the angle of approach (and angle of attack in 3D) become more acute with angle of approach being defined as the line that connects impact point and low point. . . low point plane line and impact plane line would be the same if the ball is struck at low point . . . this is the only time impact would result in a tangent . . . impact plane line would be above the low point plane line if the ball were struck after low point . . . but still be a chord and not tangent.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 10-12-2010 at 11:47 PM.
ABSOLUTELY . . . that is what is impacted no? The ball would always be on the impact plane line . . . low point plane line and impact plane line get farther apart as you move the ball more back. as a result the angle of approach (and angle of attack in 3D) become more acute with angle of approach being defined as the line that connects impact point and low point. . . low point plane line and impact plane line would be the same if the ball is struck at low point . . . this is the only time impact would result in a tangent . . . impact plane line would be above the low point plane line if the ball were struck after low point . . . but still be a chord and not tangent.
Thanks for that 12 piece.
Some follow up questions if you don't mind.
As I reread your reply and Lynn's reply, I get the impression that the impact plane line is the same as target line for a straight plane line strike from a square-square set-up.
Is that correct?
Secondly, where in this parallel line arrangement is the direction of the club head taken into account at impact? Surely, because the club head is still moving downward, outward and forward from impact to low point that the club path at impact is right of the impact plane line and the low point plane line.
If the face was square to the target at impact and the path is right of the target at impact, won't this ball draw?
If not, why not?
As always, Please forgive my lack of TGM terminology and understanding.
. . . where in this parallel line arrangement is the direction of the club head taken into account at impact? Surely, because the club head is still moving downward, outward and forward from impact to low point that the club path at impact is right of the impact plane line and the low point plane line.
If the face was square to the target at impact and the path is right of the target at impact, won't this ball draw?
If not, why not?
For Horizontal Hinge Action (Ideal Compression), the Clubface is Open at Impact and Square only at Separation (1-L #17).
And, using approximate 'clock' terms, the Center of the Ball is at 7:00 at Impact and at 6:00 -- and precisely On Line -- at
Separation.
Study 2-C-1 (Linear Force -- The Ideal Application) and Sketches 2-C-1 #1, #2A & B and #3.
For Horizontal Hinge Action (Ideal Compression), the Clubface is Open at Impact and Square only at Separation (1-L #17).
And, using approximate 'clock' terms, the Center of the Ball is at 7:00 at Impact and at 6:00 -- and precisely On Line -- at
Separation.
Study 2-C-1 (Linear Force -- The Ideal Application) and Sketches 2-C-1 #1, #2A & B and #3.
Thank you again.
I need to work on my terminology. All of those impacts should have said separation.
Now that I have looked at 2-C-1 #1, #2, #2b and #3 in more detail, it is more clear than ever that the striker is moving to the right. One would certainly have to point this to the left to create a straight shot if hit before low point.
It looks like HK was pretty darn close to describing the D-plane in pictures.
Last edited by nevercrosses : 10-13-2010 at 09:03 AM.
I need to work on my terminology. All of those impacts should have said separation.
Now that I have looked at 2-C-1 #1, #2, #2b and #3 in more detail, it is more clear than ever that the striker is moving to the right. One would certainly have to point this to the left to create a straight shot if hit before low point.
It looks like HK was pretty darn close to describing the D-plane in pictures.
It took me a minute to figure things out.
I respect your work, its always well thought out and above else on this wonderful internet.......fair.
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"The only real shortcuts are more and more know how"...TGM
For Horizontal Hinge Action (Ideal Compression), the Clubface is Open at Impact and Square only at Separation (1-L #17).
And, using approximate 'clock' terms, the Center of the Ball is at 7:00 at Impact and at 6:00 -- and precisely On Line -- at
Separation.
Study 2-C-1 (Linear Force -- The Ideal Application) and Sketches 2-C-1 #1, #2A & B and #3.
Let's assume that the face rotation is this much during contact with the ball (which is debateable) and the face at separation is directly at the target line but the clubhead path is still traveling downward, outward and forward at this point.
Face pointing at target at separation, club continues down plane with path to the right even if parallel.
This is not a straight shot unless mishit on the heel causing some gear effect which eliminates draw spin axis.
\
The above image is of an inclined plane. There is only point on that plane that is more right than all the others. If that point points at the target and the ball impact is separated anytime before that point(while pointing at the target), the path of the club is going down, out and forward.
Let's assume that the face rotation is this much during contact with the ball (which is debateable) and the face at separation is directly at the target line but the clubhead path is still traveling downward, outward and forward at this point.
Face pointing at target at separation, club continues down plane with path to the right even if parallel.
This is not a straight shot unless mishit on the heel causing some gear effect which eliminates draw spin axis.
\
The above image is of an inclined plane. There is only point on that plane that is more right than all the others. If that point points at the target and the ball impact is separated anytime before that point(while pointing at the target), the path of the club is going down, out and forward.
No straight shot.
I agree with this....will it be a ball that starts straight and falls a tad left or would the ball start off just right of the target and draw back?
__________________
"The only real shortcuts are more and more know how"...TGM
The above image is of an inclined plane. There is only point on that plane that is more right than all the others. If that point points at the target and the ball impact is separated anytime before that point(while pointing at the target), the path of the club is going down, out and forward.
No straight shot.
Exactly what point is that? Can I hit a High straight or a Low straight shot?
Hybrid Mode
