Could someone tell me if there is a, 4 barrel swing pattern and a 4 barrel hit pattern? If there is two different patterns what are the differences. If there is only one pattern how would it be described, a hit or a swing or switting?
Please explain.
Could someone tell me if there is a, 4 barrel swing pattern and a 4 barrel hit pattern? If there is two different patterns what are the differences. If there is only one pattern how would it be described, a hit or a swing or switting?
Please explain.
1) YES
2) The difference is that one pulls and the other pushes
3) The sameness is that they both are using all four accumulators
4) Players choice - you could use a 4 barrel swinging pattern for putting if you wanted to
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Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
I don't understand how it is possible to have a four barrel swinging action. I thought that the maximum was triple barrel (4:2:3) and that adding PA#1 would be switting.
I can imagine PA#1 release contributing to drag loading the clubshaft if the actively straightening right arm contributed to the release of either PA#4 or #2 in a coordinated/complementary manner. However, how would that be possible? How can active PA#1 release at a certain point in the downswing produce a better left arm movement than the standard method of releasing PA#4 in a pivot-driven swing? Also, how can contributory active PA#1 release improve on the centrifugal release action of PA#2?
I not only cannot understand how a four barrel swing action can be better than a triple barrel swing action (4:2:3) -I also cannot understand how it can be even be equal (because active release of PA#1 can cause considerable interference/harm in a swinger's action).
How can active PA#1 release at a certain point in the downswing produce a better left arm movement than the standard method of releasing PA#4 in a pivot-driven swing? Also, how can contributory active PA#1 release improve on the centrifugal release action of PA#2?
Jeff.
I'll take sound Three Barrel (4-2-3) over a Four Barrel any day, regardless of how wide the fairway is. Plus, you get better gas mileage .
I can imagine PA#1 release contributing to drag loading the clubshaft if the actively straightening right arm contributed to the release of either PA#4 or #2 in a coordinated/complementary manner. However, how would that be possible? How can active PA#1 release at a certain point in the downswing produce a better left arm movement than the standard method of releasing PA#4 in a pivot-driven swing? Also, how can contributory active PA#1 release improve on the centrifugal release action of PA#2?
I not only cannot understand how a four barrel swing action can be better than a triple barrel swing action (4:2:3) -I also cannot understand how it can be even be equal (because active release of PA#1 can cause considerable interference/harm in a swinger's action).
Jeff.
I agree - tricky stuff. it would have to be 4, 1 , 2 , 3.... which would mean pivot throwing left arm off chest (right shoulder fly wheel)...then a bit of PA1 (using right shoulder as backstop brace off which to push) .. then 2 and then 3....
LIke DG and others have said....seems surplus to requirements...
I wonder if many use their PA1 later...almost overlapping 2 and 3??...but then how does that differ from 4 barrel hit??
When you watch Lynn and Ben doing their pitches on one of 6Bs videos on youtube....
there is discussion about adding some active PA1 on the swinging pitch (Lynn says that early on) ....and I am not sure that that discussion has been fully dissected.
There is a definite difference in what happens to the impact bag when Ben hits it and when Lynn hits it.... maybe because Lynn hits it harder but Ben's club has no recoil at all....
Ask Ben Doyle about 4 barrel swing - it seems to be the pattern he aims for by all accounts. 3rd edition patterns may have been Homer giving in to his and other pros' demands for a powerful pattern to teach....??? maybe
I am more than happy to take Homer's advice and not try and do it...yet at the same time it would be menatlly satisfying to at least know what he is telling us to avoid.
I not only cannot understand how a four barrel swing action can be better than a triple barrel swing action (4:2:3) -I also cannot understand how it can be even be equal (because active release of PA#1 can cause considerable interference/harm in a swinger's action).
Jeff.
Before I get associated with a 27 page thread on 4 barrel anything- please note that I just answered in a very simple and general way - the question that started the thread. I never said that you'd want to use it, that it was better than anything else, that it was recommended, needed, that it might have it's advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation. I did say it was a Player's choice/option- as you have the option to drive your car over a cliff if you want.
Secondly, the Right arm can help the pull of the clubshaft (maybe passively versus "actively") (maybe directly or maybe indirectly) or as Homer Kelley stated at least "aid in the support of the left arm pull" 10-24-F 6th edition. So using accumulator #1 does not always mean that you are pushing the entire left arm and clubshaft as a unit (Primary Lever Assembly). For example, can you grab a club with your right hand only and pull it by straighteing your right arm? Can you pull an arrow out of a quiver along the shaft of the arrow with your right hand by straightening the right arm? Or as noted in 10-24-F - you can have the right arm push the left arm and as a result create more pull on the clubshaft.
While initially it is important to understand the difference between hitting and swinging: In hitting you are pushing with the right arm and actively using accumulator #1. At some point you also need to learn that because you may be using accumulator #1 - it doesn't mean that you are hitting, pushing the clubshaft. GolfBulldog certainly is on track in that the loading procedure has a big play in this- if the shaft is loaded and "swinging" (as opposed to the hitter's ENTIRE primary lever system (left arm and clubshaft) working as one unit with no "separate" momentum of the clubshaft) then you are swinging and if accumulator #1 and it's corresponding pressure point(s) have some lag and acceleration/power requirements then you're using it. Just understand that we're using this for the course, for real life and if you understand the essential characteristics you'll be able to help your swing- we don't need to measure your right tricep, and pressure points in a lab and determine that it did contribute .0000000001% to the movement and therefore we categorize you as a 4 barrel swinger. It is important to understand the principles.
So on the big picture- you can do about anything- you just have to understand what you're doing so that things work together and that you can repeat it and you can fix it if it goes off course.
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Could someone tell me if there is a, 4 barrel swing pattern and a 4 barrel hit pattern? If there is two different patterns what are the differences. If there is only one pattern how would it be described, a hit or a swing or switting?
Please explain.
There is a 4-Barrel Swinging pattern in the 3rd Edition. Tomasello Chapter video series contains a 4 barrel swinging pattern.
I have viewed the TT swing videos (including his "Letter to Lee Dietrick" videos) many times, and I have attempted to use the "right arm" in a variety of ways to supply a "hitting action" while swinging. I still cannot understand why it will not adversely interact with a centrifugal-induced PA#2 release phenomenon (passive release of PA#2). Can you explain in words how one can usefully supply a "right arm hit force" when using a swinger's 4:2:3 release action (that is critically dependent on the passive release of PA#2)?
Here is a hand-drawn graph showing the kinetic sequence in a good golfer who uses a swinger's action.
Diagram 1 represents an optimal kinetic sequence where the pelvis rotates before the shoulders ala Hogan (creating increased torso-pelvic separation in the early downswing) while diagram 2 shows a golfer who rotates the pelvis/shoulders equally fast at the start of the downswing (ala Hardy OPS). Either way, both golfers can optimally release PA#4 in such manner that left arm speed is maximal in the mid-downswing.
Now look at Sergio's downswing hand arc.
His U-shaped hand arc has its tightest turn (smallest radius) at the exact moment when his left arm, and therefore left hand/wrist, is traveling at its maximum speed (because his kinetic sequence is similar to diagram 1 above). That means that the force inducing a centrifugal release of PA#2 is maximal at that late release time point. He simply has to allow PA#2 to release passively (according to the laws of physics) to acquire maximal clubhead speed into impact.
How could a "right arm hit action" at some time-point in his downswing improve on his swinger's action?
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Hybrid Mode
