What do you mean by stating that the right hand is uncocked post-impact? I believe that the right wrist should be level (but bent) throughout the downswing and followthrough, and I cannot understand what you mean when you claim that Hogan uncocked his right wrist post-impact.
What do you mean when you state that the right hand must move in a karate-chop move/action through impact, and how does it overpower the left wrist through impact? It is my understanding that the left wrist is flat throughout the downswing (even while it is uncocking as a result of the release of power accumulator #2) and followthrough, and that the left wrist uncocking occurs secondary to centrifugal action, and not due to any right-sided (right forearm/hand) forces. I cannot imagine what it means when one states that the left wrist/hand is overpowered through impact - unless one is a flipper, who incorrectly straightens the right wrist through the impact zone. Hogan, obviously, didn't perform any right hand flipping action through the impact zone - based on photographic evidence.
mrodock
It is my impression that Hogan's right elbow is especially bent at impact because he rotated his pelvis to a very open position by impact, and simultantaneously maintained his right pitch elbow position in front of the right hip.
What do you mean by stating that the right hand is uncocked post-impact? I believe that the right wrist should be level (but bent) throughout the downswing and followthrough, and I cannot understand what you mean when you claim that Hogan uncocked his right wrist post-impact.
What do you mean when you state that the right hand must move in a karate-chop move/action through impact, and how does it overpower the left wrist through impact? It is my understanding that the left wrist is flat throughout the downswing (even while it is uncocking as a result of the release of power accumulator #2) and followthrough, and that the left wrist uncocking occurs secondary to centrifugal action, and not due to any right-sided (right forearm/hand) forces. I cannot imagine what it means when one states that the left wrist/hand is overpowered through impact - unless one is a flipper, who incorrectly straightens the right wrist through the impact zone. Hogan, obviously, didn't perform any right hand flipping action through the impact zone - based on photographic evidence.
mrodock
It is my impression that Hogan's right elbow is especially bent at impact because he rotated his pelvis to a very open position by impact, and simultantaneously maintained his right pitch elbow position in front of the right hip.
Jeff.
Jeff
I am assuming you are asking about hogan later in his post accident days so look at some footage of that . The cf force eventually causes the left hand to begin to uncock my opinion is that he used his right hand as i stated like a karate chop at impact without losing the bend in his right wrist it has nothing to do with his forearm . Seems pretty obvious that the right wrist is in an uncocked position when the arms come back into view in the follow through on a DTL sequence.Just my opinion anyway
The word "cocked" implies a state of radial deviation of the wrist, and I believe that the right wrist never becomes cocked (radially deviated) during the backswing, and it remains level (neither cocked or uncocked). I think that the right wrist bends (dorsiflexes) during the backswing, and it remains bent during the downswing and the followthrough, even though the right elbow straightens. There may less bend in the right wrist at the end of the followthrough, but it shouldn't ever straighten fully (fully palmar flex).
Based on the above, I cannot understand how the right hand can independently power the downswing (via some type of karate-chop action).
The word "cocked" implies a state of radial deviation of the wrist, and I believe that the right wrist never becomes cocked (radially deviated) during the backswing, and it remains level (neither cocked or uncocked). I think that the right wrist bends (dorsiflexes) during the backswing, and it remains bent during the downswing and the followthrough, even though the right elbow straightens. There may less bend in the right wrist at the end of the followthrough, but it shouldn't ever straighten fully (fully palmar flex).
Based on the above, I cannot understand how the right hand can independently power the downswing (via some type of karate-chop action).
Jeff.
I don't recall talking about the backswing at all but since you mention it most good players have an element of right wrist cock in their backswing however small it may be and if you can't understand my opinion on the right hand function at impact ask someone else they may give you the standard tgm textbook answer you seek and while you are at it ask all of them to do a break down of hogans swing components. With time you may get a lot of answers but i bet not one of them will be the same. i have seen four or five and simply they are not even close to each other so goodluck and check the footage yourself and explain away the uncocked right wrist position detailed in an earlier post to you
I still don't know what you mean by the right wrist being uncocked post-impact.
I have studied Hogan's swing in depth many times. Here is a series of photos showing his right wrist movements through the impact zone.
Let' see whether we can agree on the "reality" of what is happening to his right wrist.
Image 1 shows Hogan at impact. His right wrist is bent (dorsiflexed) and level (neither upcocked or downcocked).
Image 2 shows Hogan post-impact. His right wrist is still bent and level. I can see no evidence of palmar flexion of the right wrist or any cocking movements (either radial deviation or ulnar deviation) of the right wrist. So, in what sense do you claim that Hogan uncocked his right wrist during impact and thereby applied right hand power to the ball?
Image 3 is post-followthrough and I think that it demonstrates right hand pronation (which straightens the right wrist) and left hand supination, and I think that those movements represent the start of the finish swivel action.
Jeff.
Last edited by Jeff : 05-24-2008 at 01:38 AM.
Reason: grammar
So what last time i checked you can move the right hand while the arm stays bent
Have you studied hitting? Hitting or switting isn't about thrusting with the right hand; instead, the right triceps.
Left handed version: Hitting or switting isn't about thrusting with the left hand; instead, the left triceps. (You know you are doing it the wrong way, right!?!)
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"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
It is my impression that Hogan's right elbow is especially bent at impact because he rotated his pelvis to a very open position by impact, and simultantaneously maintained his right pitch elbow position in front of the right hip.
Jeff.
Jeff I believe you are correct but I was not concerned you had an incomplete understanding of the topic at hand.
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"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
I still don't know what you mean by the right wrist being uncocked post-impact.
I have studied Hogan's swing in depth many times. Here is a series of photos showing his right wrist movements through the impact zone.
Let' see whether whether we can agree on the "reality" of what is happening to his right wrist.
Image 1 shows Hogan at impact. His right wrist is bent (dorsiflexed) and level (neither upcocked or downcocked).
Image 2 shows Hogan post-impact. His right wrist is still bent and level. I can see no evidence of palmar flexion of the right wrist or any cocking movements (either radial deviation or ulnar deviation) of the right wrist. So, in what sense do you claim that Hogan uncocked his right wrist during impact and thereby applied right hand power to the ball?
Image 3 is post-followthrough and I think that it demonstrates right hand pronation (which straightens the right wrist) and left hand supination, and I think that those movements represent the start of the finish swivel action.
Jeff.
Good photo of hogan showing all the beginners how to swing but really jeff that photo shows absolutely nothing in regard to what i stated before. Get some footage of hogan from BEHIND/ DTL i.e masters footage, hogan dvd collection etc and freeze frame when the hands exit in the follow through and come back and tell me his right wrist is in a level state and it has nothing to do with the swivel It seems obvious that my eyes see totally different things to you and sincerely i am satisfied with my eyesight .This is only my opinion though so the only way i can describe to you is the right hand is accelerated at impact in a manner like it is working under and to the left of a firm left wrist while at the same time the right wrist maintains the bend
Hogan is able to maintain his right elbow bend deeper as a result of the trajectory of his right shoulder in my opinion. He stays in his angles or posture or whatever you want to call it and his arms stay WITH and ON his body all components in rhythm.
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